2017 GSF

dlin4229

993分

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dlin4229

個人積分：993分

文章編號：86565303

So, so far I only believe European does make better dampers...

Except that... Every car has pros and cons.

Oh! Wait! There is one thing I almost forgot...

That's... I also believe Japanese do make more reliable cars... (AGAIN, no one is perfect!!!

)

PS: In my opinion, when paired with much softer OEM springs, Japanese dampers are really GOOD ENOUGH!!! (Not to mention Japanese dampers could be more reliable!!!)
That's why F cars' dampers are from SACHS and GT-R's dampers are from Bilstein, but softer and more comfortable LC500's dampers are still KYB... 真心不騙

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dlin4229

993分

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dlin4229

個人積分：993分

文章編號：86565495

This ultimate Yaris, GRMN Yaris directly from Toyota factory... (Everything is STOCK!!!)

Believe it or not... Its dampers are from Bilstein... I think that's why my son rarely complained about the much stiffer ride caused by Bilstein PSS10 in his old Nissan!!! 笑到噴淚

(He only complained about the firm ride once or twice so far but he did complain more about the impractical lower ride when driving over speed bumps)

I also asked him if you wanted to change back to the softer OEM suspension...(I still keep the old factory dampers and springs in my garage)

He answered... "NO!!!" (even though he is the slowest or the most patient driver in my family!!! 笑到噴淚

)

He also said... He will keep his old Nissan until it completely stops working!!! 真心不騙

PS: GRMN = Gazoo Racing Meister(Master) of Nurburgring

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dlin4229

993分

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dlin4229

個人積分：993分

文章編號：86567025

This modified GT-R also feels good on back roads but it does need softer springs due to weaker Japanese dampers...

MCR GT-R (HP: 600, Tires: 255/285, Weight: 3762 lbs)
Front 14K : (14 * 0.8) / (3762 * 53%) * 1000 = 5.617
Rear 8K : (8 * 2) / (3762 * 47%) * 1000 = 9.049
(Why 0.8 is needed on front? That's because GT-R's front is double A. Why 2 is needed on rear? That's because GT-R's rear is true coilover type)

The below is my Ohlins suspension which is even slightly stiffer than this modified GT-R above. I think that GT-R already adopted the stiffest springs its dampers could handle!!! 笑到噴淚

GSF :4035 lbs
Front 16K : (16 * 0.80) / (4035 * 53%) * 1000 = 5.985
Rear 19K : 19 / (4035 * 47%) * 1000 = 10.019
(Why is 0.80 needed??? That's because GSF's front suspension is double A)

Of course, my Ohlins dampers definitely can handle much more stiff springs but I will not do it as I'm not a professional car chassis tuner or a racing driver... 笑到噴淚

(So, these European dampers could also become more tolerable on ERRORS or less picky on their settings if the springs are not extremely stiff or near the maxima stiffness, I believe!!! 拇指向上

)

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dlin4229

993分

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dlin4229

個人積分：993分

文章編號：86572731

I almost forgot one thing...

These "INITIAL D" modified cars from Japan were designed for GunSai. GunSai is not as smooth as race tracks but still a CLOSED road course!!!

My GSF is intended to be used on OPEN public roads... So, the spring rates of my Ohlins suspension is really stiff enough. Actually, my Ohlins's springs could be a little TOO STIFF!!! (That's why most of the time my GSF's ride was good but occasionally, the ride could become too harsh but fortunately, it only happened in a very short period!!!)

Actually the best lap times Mines's GT-R in GunSai was a little slower than MCR GT-R, unexpectedly as Mine's GT-R is much stiffer and also has better dampers.

Mines's GT-R : 25"732
MCR GT-R : 25"682

In my opinion, Mines's GT-R should still be a little faster. Why??? That's because both lap times were made at different dates... So, the road conditions at GunTai should be different!!!

Actually, I think Mine's GT-R should also be a bit more fun but why were both lap times so closed??? That's because they both adopted similar size tires!!! 笑到噴淚

So, BIGGER TIRES make better lap times but STIFFER SUSPENSIONS make more fun and confidence!!!

In addition, my Ohlins suspension is really stiff enough. MCR GT-R is a little softer than my Ohlins but MCR GT-R in GunSai is still VERY FAST!!!

PS: That's why in 2011 winter when my wife changed from 2000 Maxima(Koni+H&R) to 2010 M35X(almost brand new, stock), she didn't like that new M35X. M35X was definitely faster even at corners but modified and much stiffer Maxima was MORE FUN!!! 笑到噴淚

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dlin4229

993分

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dlin4229

個人積分：993分

文章編號：86573181

Actually MCR GT-R had much bigger tires on front... Again, the bigger tires the faster!!! 笑到噴淚

Mines's GT-R : 25"732 (Tires: 255/285)
MCR GT-R : 25"682 (Tires: 285/285)

Mine's GT-R (HP: 750, Tires: 255/285, Weight: 3608 lbs)
Front 19.65K : (19.65 * 0.8) / (3608 * 53%) * 1000 = 8.221
Rear 12.50K : (12.50 * 2) / (3608 * 47%) * 1000 = 14.743

MCR GT-R (HP: 600, Tires: 285/285, Weight: 3762 lbs)
Front 14K : (14 * 0.8) / (3762 * 53%) * 1000 = 5.617
Rear 8K : (8 * 2) / (3762 * 47%) * 1000 = 9.049

Assist M3 was much lighter but had biggest tires on front and rear... Again, the bigger tires the faster!!! 笑到噴淚

I also have to say the AWD in GT-R really helps!!! (Without big tires, those heavier GT-Rs were only a little slower, surprisingly)

Assist M3 : 25"627

Assist M3 (HP: 435, Tires: 295/295, Weight: 3344 lbs)
Front 16K : 16 / (3344 * 52%) * 1000 = 9.201
Rear 26K : 26 / (3344 * 48%) * 1000 = 16.198

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dlin4229

993分

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dlin4229

個人積分：993分

文章編號：86573218

NF210 spring rates (0-5% more than OEM)

GSF :4035 lbs
Front 7.5K : (7.5 * 0.80) / (4035 * 53%) * 1000 = 2.806
Rear 12.4K : 12.4 / (4035 * 47%) * 1000 = 6.538
(Why 0.8 is needed on front? That's because the front suspension is double A)

Miata(ND) : 2332 lbs
Front 2.5K : (2.5 * 0.80) / (2332 * 50%) * 1000 = 1.715
Rear 1.4K : (1.4 * 2) / (2332 * 50%) * 1000 = 2.401
(Why 0.8 is needed on front? That's because the front suspension is double A. Why 2 is needed on rear? That's because the rear suspension is true coilover type)

Even stock GSF is a bit stiffer than Miata... I think that's why when I rented a Miata(ND) in 2019 I didn't like it at all!!!

Even with much stiffer suspension, the factory GSF's ride is still very comfortable, refined, stable... It's really a 4 door, full size Miata!!!

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dlin4229

993分

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dlin4229

個人積分：993分

文章編號：86573222

Even IS350's rear is a bit stiffer than Miata... (So, these Lexus luxury, performance and also very refined RWD sedans are really "NO SLOUCH"!!!) 拇指向上

NF210 spring rates (0-5% more than OEM)

IS350(XE30) : 3593 lbs
Front 4.1K : (4.1 * 0.80) / (3593 * 53%) * 1000 = 1.722
Rear 8.3K : 8.3 / (3593 * 47%) * 1000 = 4.915
(Why 0.8 is needed on front? That's because the front suspension is double A)

PS: Some people may think Lexus is softer... For me I would say it's more comfortable... Once you push these Lexus RWDs a little more, you will find they're actually quite playful!!! i.e. feel soft initially but actually it's firm inside!!! ^++^

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dlin4229

993分

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dlin4229

個人積分：993分

文章編號：86573346

NF210 spring rates (0-5% more than OEM)

G35(V35) (Weight: 3442 lbs)
Front 5.3K : (5.3 * 0.8) / (3442 * 53%) * 1000 = 2.324
Rear 6K : 6 / (3442 * 47%) * 1000 = 3.709

G37(V36) (Weight: 3613 lbs)
Front 7.6K : (7.6 * 0.8) / (3613 * 53%) * 1000 = 3.175
Rear 7.2K : 7.2 / (3613 * 47%) * 1000 = 4.240

Q50 (Weight: 3730 lbs)
Front 6.2K : (6.2 * 0.8) / (3730 * 53%) * 1000 = 2.509
Rear 2.6K : (2.6 * 2) / (3730 * 47%) * 1000 = 2.966

M35 (Weight: 3958 lbs)
Front 6.4K : (6.4 * 0.8) / (3958 * 53%) * 1000 = 2.441
Rear 8.7K : 8.7 / (3958 * 47%) * 1000 = 4.677

Q70 (Weight: 3964 lbs)
Front 6.2K : (6.2 * 0.8) / (3964 * 53%) * 1000 = 2.361
Rear 2.6K : (2.6 * 2) / (3964 * 47%) * 1000 = 2.791

350Z (Weight: 3239 lbs)
Front 5.6K : (5.6 * 0.8) / (3239 * 53%) * 1000 = 2.610
Rear 6.3K : 6.3 / (3239 * 47%) * 1000 = 4.138

370Z (Weight: 3362 lbs)
Front 5.6K : (5.6 * 0.8) / (3362 * 53%) * 1000 = 2.514
Rear 6.8K : 6.8 / (3362 * 47%) * 1000 = 4.303

No matter front or rear, every Infiniti/Nissan listed here is stiffer than Miata!!!

On front, the stiffest is G37(V36) === my son's car 2007 G35(V36)
On rear, the stiffest is M35 === my daughter's car 2010 M35X
Both two our old Nissans are even stiffer than two Nissan sports coupe 350Z/370Z!!!

(I think that's why many people prefer S2000 as actually 350Z/370Z are more like GT sports cars... Same situation also on new Z!!!)

So, I was not dumb and actually quite right... rock

(I prefer stiffer cars)

PS: That's also why those aftermarket suspensions for 350Z/G35(V35) or 370Z/G35(V36)/G37(V36) are completely interchangeable as their chassis are exactly the same and their stiffness are also very similar!!!
My son's G35 and my daughter's M35X are really 4 door sports cars!!! And, that's why when they were introduced in 2003, 2005 and 2007... many car enthusiasts were completely shocked!!! 拇指向上

(That's also why SAAB was closed eventually!!! 笑到噴淚

)

G35 vs SAAB

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dlin4229

993分

樓主

dlin4229

個人積分：993分

文章編號：86573410

OEM spring rates

M4 F82 (Weight: 3530 lbs)
Front 3K : 3 / (3530 * 52%) * 1000 = 1.634
Rear 10.5K : 10.5 / (3530 * 48%) * 1000 = 6.197

M4 Competition F82 (Weight: 3565 lbs)
Front 3.3K : 3.3 / (3565 * 52%) * 1000 = 1.780
Rear 12.14K : 12.14 / (3565 * 48%) * 1000 = 7.094

330i(G20) (Weight: 3536 lbs)
Front 2.1K : 2.1 / (3536 * 52%) * 1000 = 1.142
Rear 6.3K : 6.3 / (3536 * 48%) * 1000 = 3.712

Like I said, stock BMW's front is really really soft especially for non M!!! 拇指向下

The below is "soft" Camry... 笑到噴淚

NF210 spring rates (0-5% more than OEM)

2015 Camry Hybrid (Weight: 3485 lbs)
Front 2.9K : 2.9 / (3485 * 57%) * 1000 = 1.460
Rear 2.5K : (2.5 * 2) / (3485 * 43%) * 1000 = 3.337

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dlin4229

993分

樓主

dlin4229

個人積分：993分

文章編號：86573686

I also have to say... Those people who drive their cars on narrow mountain roads very fast with only those much softer OEM suspensions, really need A VERY BIG HEART!!!

Even with very stiff and stable Ohlins suspension, my GSF still felt very scary although I only did 0.9G!!! 嚇到吃手手

(The GSF with OEM PSS tires are about 0.95G at maximum but it is still capable to do 1.0-1.1G in transit)

So, those aggressive drivers still could do 1.0-1.1G occasionally if they really push GSF to the limit... (Of course, if they put some very sticky tires like RE-71R, then the g-force will go even higher!!!)

To sum up... It doesn't matter if your car is soft or stiff... (Even my Ohlins GSF feels soft if you really push it to the limit)

The key is... Do you really have A BIG AND STRONG HEART??? 笑到噴淚

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2017 GSF

小惡魔新聞台

小惡魔廣編特輯

2017 GSF

小惡魔新聞台

小惡魔廣編特輯

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