柯P火速PO律師函嗆葛特曼24小時內公開道歉

284分

181樓

個人積分：284分

文章編號：70383118

7rabbit7 wrote:
這能有甚麼影響，
捐器官在東方從來都不是一件易事，
保留完整屍身是沒法逆轉的觀念。
阻擋器官捐贈的不是願意捐贈的人，
因為當時捐贈者已經死了，
阻擋的人是家屬，
當事人就算簽了捐贈書都沒用，
有種你在沒家屬同意下摘看看，
不告死你算我輸。
但是家屬想捐，
當事人沒有簽屬過有能捐，
所以這件事對於國內器官移植屁點關係沒有，
是個假議題。

https://news.tvbs.com.tw/politics/1004366

醫界有部份聲音可能跟你想的不一樣

當然如果最後能沒影響是最好
再看看了

hjfrank

15198分

182樓

hjfrank

個人積分：15198分

文章編號：70383210

辰小風 wrote:
是炸開了之後接下來的實質負面影響
這些日後會慢慢發酵開來
不過大多數人應該都會無感
影響較大的是有相關醫療需求的那一群人
他們是無辜的

我覺得你想太多了，
或者刻意引導風向？

這件事情，
有爭議的是"活摘器官"，
而不是在"器官捐贈"。

辰小風

284分

183樓

辰小風

個人積分：284分

文章編號：70383227

hjfrank wrote:
我覺得你想太多了，
或者刻意引導？
這件事情，
有爭議的是"活摘器官"，
而不是在"器官捐贈"。

我也希望是我自己想太多了

隨緣吧

各位

人民的名義

438分

184樓

人民的名義

個人積分：438分

文章編號：70383236

巴蘭榭 wrote:
葛特曼書中內容曾讓柯遭受質疑，也被柯要求作出澄清，他也在2014年回函說明柯從未執行器官仲介，或透過中國器官市場獲利，而是「被告知」資訊。. ...(恕刪)

一開始吳祥輝的廣告就對第九章上半段重點就說得很清楚
葛特曼的聽證會也說過

柯文哲的「貨源」法輪功的「器官」《屠殺》將於台出版

如今葛特曼的原意，由蝴蝶蘭文創負責人吳祥輝署名及作者授權書在紙媒刊登全版廣告，或者可稍做釐清，廣告摘錄了《屠殺》第九章上半段內容，整理出葛特曼對柯文哲專訪的重點：柯文哲從台灣帶不知道是台大醫院或是他私自接觸的病人到中國進行器官移植，而「柯文哲確知：所有的器官都會來自法輪功。」

文中亦提及，由於柯文哲和中國器官販賣移植組織「兩岸器官一家親」，所以獲得中國人優惠價、器官取得成本減半。另外，還提到柯文哲企圖把自己設計的器官移植標準登錄系統賣給中國，但中國不想留下紀錄而拒絕。

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雷倩的文章並附有資深記者葛特曼於兩年前的9月12日，出席美國聯邦眾議院外交委員會，對於中國大陸器官移植問題舉行的聽證會，聽證會的發言：

(2012年9月12日美國眾議院外交委員會調查聽證會Serial No. 112-180)

Mr. Gutmann葛特曼發言.

Can I just mention something?

可以允許我提一件事嗎?

There is a doctor, a surgeon in Taiwan whom I spoke to in a reasonably confidential manner who initially was very standoffish, but then he revealed to me that he had been taking his patients over to the mainland for a long time to receive organs, to get new kidneys and livers and so on, aging patients.

我和台灣一位醫生，一位外科醫生在相當保密的情況下談過。他起初非常冷淡,但後來向我透露長久以來他曾將他的多位病人，年邁的病人，帶到大陸去接受器官，去獲得新的腎臟和肝臟等等。

And he had negotiated for the Chinese price, not to pay the foreigner price, pay the Chinese price.

而且他經過談判取得了中國人價格，不是付外國人價格，而是付中國人價格。

And so he had gotten to know these doctors very well in the karaoke bars and all the stuff you do when you negotiate in China.

為此他在卡拉OK場合和那些在中國談生意的各種事上，和這些醫生們混得非常熟。

At the end of this negotiation period they said, hey, you know what

談判到最後那些醫生說，猜猜怎麼著

We are not only going to give you the Chinese price but you are getting the best of the best. You are getting all Falun Gong organs.

我們不只會給你中國人價格，而且你會獲得極品中的極品。你拿到的都會是法輪功的器官。

Now this is a top surgeon in Taiwan. He is an incredibly credible witness.

這可是一位台灣的頂尖外科醫生。是一位極有公信力的證人。

If your committee were to call him it is possible that he would testify to this, and I think he could explain a lot about this business.

如果貴委員會邀請他，他可能會出席作證以上所述，我也認為他能深入解釋這個生意。

He was basically doing it right up until the Olympics, so we would have some fairly, reasonably current information on this.

他基本上直到奧運前都還在執行這項業務，所以我們會得到一些相當新的資訊。

And I think he is quite credible. 而且我認為他非常可信。

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不懂，為何你這麼刻意提仲介兩個字？吳祥輝也沒說柯文哲仲介
9/4 吳祥輝便否認意指柯P仲介器官移植，還說「歡迎柯文哲採取法律行動」。
還是你認為從台灣帶病人到中國進行器官移植，就是仲介？就一定有從中獲利？

為何要說中文書翻譯本無用？
你是認為中文版內容與葛特曼原文不同嗎？
吳祥輝在媒體上用不存在的內容抹黑柯文哲嗎？
讀者買了書，翻到第九章，會不會發現廣告不實？

巴蘭榭

189分

185樓

巴蘭榭

個人積分：189分

文章編號：70393883

人民的名義 wrote:
一開始吳祥輝的廣告就...(恕刪)

葛特曼出庭應訊8小時　律師李勝雄：他又沒說柯文哲帶病人去中國移植，哪有妨害名譽
==
既然你說過葛特曼說過
請你多舉證
這樣葛特曼就難以脫罪了

Chenbk

150分

186樓

Chenbk

個人積分：150分

文章編號：70395223

巴蘭榭 wrote:

來看看你寫的
人民...(恕刪)

ET4213

95分

187樓

ET4213

個人積分：95分

文章編號：70395955

你這裡的這麼多說法裡

上了法庭有用的就是葛特曼訪問柯文哲後

寫成書書裡寫到柯的內容

用email寄給柯確認三次

雙方同意的內容這個內容才是重點

其他人的說法不是太重要

以上是我的理解

大家就算沒被仲介騙過的經驗在電視或新聞也看得很多吧!柯說他是用中文讓光頭王採訪，

由此可見柯的英文其實也不是那麼溜!當年光頭王跟柯P麻吉麻吉的，對兩岸的立場是一致的

根本沒想過會被捅刀，是否會懷著戒慎恐懼的心態去細究書信的內容實在很讓人懷疑!

連未上學的小孩子做錯事都想辦法隱瞞父母!智商157的柯文哲又怎會白目地說自己怎樣怎樣，

很明顯就是著了光頭王的道把聽聞變成柯自己的事!不論email 幾次都不重要,反正柯就是被

光頭王詐騙了!!!光頭王的立論既然都是來自柯，當然事實也是柯說了算!光頭王從頭到尾都是

聽說.....懷疑....猜想....沒有柯參與活摘的證據,也沒有柯與他所謂的兇手們交好的

證據,一般要上聽證會的程度起碼要有窩裡反的活摘醫師提出相關相片影片等資訊才有證據力!

像這種小說式的訪談在國際間弄得沸沸揚揚根本是西方國家要打擊老共的伎倆，再說一次，

指證別人要提出證據!

fuzzy37

775分

188樓

fuzzy37

個人積分：775分

文章編號：70398403

柯應該是吿不成
你跟人家講過的東西
現在矢口否認
人家當然可以說你是騙子

人民的名義

438分

189樓

人民的名義

個人積分：438分

文章編號：70404657

巴蘭榭 wrote:
葛特曼出庭應訊8小時　律師李勝雄：他又沒說柯文哲帶病人去中國移植，哪有妨害名譽..(恕刪)

Ten years ago Dr. Ko went to a mainland hospital to negotiate reduced kidney and liver prices for his department’s elderly patients.

資料來源，有屠殺第九章 254/255 頁原文圖片可看
書中描述柯文哲考慮去大陸取得器官(下方有中文翻譯的圖片)
加上葛特曼的證詞，如果真是柯文哲本人，那就是一種議價行為，沒有病人要移植，議價議好玩的嗎？

我支持柯文哲不只要告到底
還要告到「美國眾議會」與「加拿大國會國際人權委員會」
看到底是葛特曼編故事還是柯文哲說謊死不認帳

其實柯文哲只要站出來，跟葛特曼同聲譴責強國活摘法輪功器官，呼籲世人抵制強國，不就什麼事都沒有了 orz

mindcry

14分

190樓

mindcry

個人積分：14分

文章編號：70405035

書裡面的內容不予置評，也許中共真的在行納粹之實，在還沒攻破北京之前西方國家沒辦法發現作者所描述的集中營，也許現在正有100萬人被關押中。
很多秘密都要等到ccp垮台以後才會知道。
包括柯文哲跟光頭王的書信往返，到底柯P同意了哪部份的內容？還有柯P是不是受了北京的威脅，收買，誘惑？
他去大陸應該都有被公安部全程錄音，特別是在旅館裡面
我貼上柯P說"OK"的故事給大家看，也可以參考其他網友的猜測
https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/Gossiping/M.1536160852.A.535.html

A Tale of two Surgeons

Just over a decade ago, a young Taiwanese surgeon began thinking about going to the mainland to acquire human organs. It wasn’t a pleasant decision, he thought of himself as a conscientious man, not a gambler. But the waiting period for a liver or even a kidney in Taiwan could be as long as two or three years, by which time many of his patients would simply waste away. And if Chinese hospitals could perform the soup-to-nuts services they claimed on the web—donor to order, surgery, observation, recovery—patients who could barely be loaded onto a plane might come back as human beings who had successfully digested their airline meal, weren’t sure they actually needed the wheelchair, and tearfully hugged their waiting grandchildren. Taiwan was a death sentence for these patients: Mainland Chinese hospitals were blatantly advertising a tissue matched organ within a week or perhaps two.

He didn’t particularly want to look behind the Mainland curtain that’s all. You could do anything you liked in China. Cut someone’s dick off if you liked. Not that much difference from what he was trying to do; it was common knowledge that the organs were being taken from executed prisoners on death row.

So if his job was to ride his fragile patients into the wild, wild east and bring them back alive, okay, but even that wasn’t certain; the criminal life-style led to high probability of hepatitis, drug-use, or promiscuous sex. Labour camp led to stress and malnutrition. Any or perhaps all of these medical histories would now be given a second life in his patients』 bodies. And there was no recourse if something went wrong , not in a highly competitive, entrepreneurial business that operated in a not-quite-black market but a very, very gray one. Nor were his patients in any sense rich. Taiwan was still an emerging tiger, his patients had lived interesting lives to be sure, but modest ones. A glance at the web established the foreigner price of 63,000 US for a kidney. Because Chinese regarded the Taiwanese as slick foreigners wearing a Chinese mask that would be his price too, and yet native Chinese were paying half that. This injustice gnawed at him. Somehow, where so many Taiwanese businessmen before him had failed, he would have to convince the Mainland doctors he was not foreign devil but a brother.

The surgeon went to China and meticulously worked through the checklist of intimacy with his medical colleagues: The go-to-hell banquet. The karaoke bar. The cognac followed by the Mao-Tai. The subtle flattery and the jokes about his accent. And when the ritual was truly finished, the Chinese surgeons summoned him.

You are one of us. You are a brother. So we will give you the family price. But we are going to do more for you than that. We』ve noted your worries and concerns about organ quality. And we trust your discretion. So you will have no worries for your patients. They will receive nothing but the best: all the organs will come from Falun Gong. These people may be a little fanatical, but you know? They don’t drink. They don’t smoke. Many of them are young. They practice healthy Chi-gong. Very soon your patients—they will be young and healthy too.

And the surgeon smiled and thanked them politely, and the process began. But at the point of victory, he had felt no relief, only something that gnawed at him worse than before. Something he could not speak of.

Even as he set up appointments for his patients on the Mainland, the surgeon kept thinking that there must be a way to rationalize the system to apply some oversight, some sort of technical fix. Yet now that the doctors had blood on their hands there was no obvious way to medical reform. An open discussion would require dredging up the past. The Party would never allow the slaughter of prisoners of conscience to be revealed to the world—in fact his Chinese surgeon friends had already let him know discreetly that the harvesting of Falun Gong would be put in hold as the Olympics approached. When it was over—they would do it again. Perhaps the way forward was to use that brief hiatus as an opening to implement good bureaucratic hygiene, something to raise the cost of keeping secrets?

There was plenty of talk about consent forms—making the prisoner sign a release donating his organ to the nation 「as a final penance」 or something like that. But the surgeon knew the labor camp administrations could get anyone to sign anything. Reform had to start with the doctors』 conscience. On his own time, the surgeon labored to create a national database system, a mandatory electronic form. For every organ acquired, a doctor would have to fill in details on individual donor health, medical background, blood type, address, arrest record, everything. The form just had to be simple, non-threatening, and mainland-user-friendly—something even a barefoot doctor could use. Maybe he could sell the system to the Chinese medical establishment, even make some sort of compensation, and yet—that gnaw again—even if the mainland doctors adopted the system, you would only remove 95% of the problem. It was sickening.

Anyway they rejected it. It was obvious in retrospect that it was okay for the mainland doctors to run a sort of informal ebay of organ trading, done through emails, and discrete usergroups, but the surgeon’s form would either cut out too many potential donor or leave too much of an electronic trail. The rejection was passed on with the respect you give to a distant cousin who doesn’t quite get it. A few years later the surgeon gave an anonymous interview to an American writer—well, we thought it was anonymous anyway—and the surgeon was banned from the mainland for life.

*** It was during that same period, just short of 2006, that a Chinese doctor named Huang Jiefu was developing a reputation, save one, he was a very prolific transplant surgeon—if we have some understanding of what was in the Taiwanese surgeon’s heart, we know little of Huang Jiefu’s—in fact, that’s one of the unsolved mysteries of this article. But we do know, by Huang’s own admission, that he averaged over 100 liver transplants a year...

柯文哲2013年6月12日回覆：
the story seems Ok.
Dr. Wen-je Ko（柯文哲）
senior staff，SICU，Department of Surgery
chairman，Department of Traumatology
National Taiwan University Hospital
Taipei，Taiwan

ET4213 wrote:大家就算沒被仲介騙過的經驗在電視或新聞也看得很多吧!柯說他是用中文讓光頭王採訪，

由此可見柯的英文其實也不是那麼溜!當年光頭王跟柯P麻吉麻吉的，對兩岸的立場是一致的

根本沒想過會被捅刀，是否會懷著戒慎恐懼的心態去細究書信的內容實在很讓人懷疑!

柯P火速PO律師函嗆葛特曼24小時內公開道歉

A Tale of two Surgeons

小惡魔新聞台

小惡魔廣編特輯

柯P火速PO律師函 嗆葛特曼24小時內公開道歉

A Tale of two Surgeons

小惡魔新聞台

小惡魔廣編特輯

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柯P火速PO律師函嗆葛特曼24小時內公開道歉

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