對於熟悉相機的朋友,你可能對Canon如數家珍,也可能對Nikon非常有研究,如果是想要知道Sony,在網路上也能夠找到不少資料。但如果是專門生產鏡頭給其他廠商使用的鏡頭廠呢?2012年以製造鏡頭為主的廠商Sigma由山木和人(Kazuto Yamaki)先生上任社長之後,公司的產品線完全打掉重練,鏡頭的部分拆成ART、Contemporary與Sports三條產品線,而搭載Foveon感光元件的dp系列也推陳出新,整間公司呈現出煥然一新的感受。然而到底是什麼原因,讓山木社長決定改革?又為什麼他們的產品總是能夠同時維持高品質與相對低廉的售價?而山木先生到底有是怎麼樣的人?公司改變前後的差別又在哪裡呢?這些問題一直是小編埋藏在心底許久的疑問。

十一月中旬的時候,日本Sigma公司的社長山木和人先生透過台灣代理商恆伸公司向小編表達想要來台灣媒體看看的想法。小編當時很不解,因為通常這種事情是我們在出差的時候,去到對方公司的總部裡去提出問題。我一直有到Sigma去採訪的想法,但似乎一直沒有一個好的機會。怎麼現在是他們過來呢?而且還是公司的社長要親自過來一趟,足足讓我過了手心冒汗的一個月。為了怕準備不足,所以我也在12月初的時候向各方網友徵求想要詢問社長的問題。小編也在訪談的那天將部分網友的意見提出。

以下是訪談的影片摘錄,只有四個問題,讓大家熟悉一下山木社長的說話方式,各位等下在看訪談全文的時候再自行腦補齁~


由於本次對談的內容主要為英文,01是中文性質小編也當然寫下中文翻譯,但為了讓國外的網友們能夠了解,我也在此提供了英文的逐字稿。內容皆有稍微經過調整,但已力求清楚傳達社長的原意。而雖然摘錄只有四個問題,但小編訪談總共提了73個!版面看起來可能會有些冗長,還請各位見諒。

本次的訪談,主要分為六個方面,分別是:
設計方面 DESIGN
公司方面 COMPANY
鏡頭方面 LENS
相機方面 CAMERA
市場方面 MARKET
個人方面 PERSONAL QUESTION


前導 INTRODUCTION


Q:在所有問題開始之前,最令我好奇的是:為什麼身為一間公司的CEO需要在世界各地四處走?

The biggest question I have is that why you want to come here to face to the media and talk too local suppliers? That’s not what a camera company’s CEO usually do.


這是我第二次到台灣。第一次是到台灣是在3年前,我的父親是Sigma的創辦人,在那時過世了,我負責接管公司。那時因為我想看看市場的狀況所以才來,另外一個原因是我的母親是出生在台北,她是日本人,在戰爭結束前她住在台灣,她以前就說了很多關於台灣的好事。

A:Its 3 years ago, that was my first trip to visit Taiwan. My father passed away who found my company, and I took over his business. Then I want to see the market overseas. And one of the reasons why I come here is that my mother was born in Taipei. She’s a Japanese but her family move here because business reason before the WWII. My mother always told me good things about Taiwan, and that become the reason I want to come here.


Q:請問一下,你知不知道最近有一部紀錄片叫做「灣生回家」?這是一部在描述向您母親一樣的一群人的故事,這些出生在台灣的日本人的故事,他們雖然住在日本,但非常的思念在台灣的生活。我強烈推薦您去找那部片來看,電影主要的語言是使用日語,所以我想你一定看得懂,也能夠透過這部電影瞭解你的母親對於台灣的情感。
2 months ago, there’ a documentary called “Wansei Back Home”, which tell the story of those Japanese who were born in Taiwan called “Wansei”, just like your mother. After WWII, these people were send back to Japan, they really miss the old life in Taiwan. I strongly recommend you to see the documentary. It mainly speaks in Japanese and I think you could understand the feeling about Taiwan of your mother by watching this documentary.


A:噢對!她是在台北出生,但其實她是住在花蓮而且非常喜歡那裡,一直到最近他們在花蓮還有辦個同學會。
Oh yes! Though she was born in Taipei. Actually she mostly lives in Hualien then. They even had a classmate gathering there few months ago.


.
設計方面 DESIGN


Q:為什麼你會想改變產品的外觀設計?
Why do you want to change the design of your products?


A: 在我上任CEO之後,我想要重整產品線;而在我上任CEO之前,我擔任過數個部門的主管,無論是光學部門、軟體、機械、智慧財產權部門,以及數項產品的產品經理,我了解到有時候我們沒有辦法好好的向消費者傳達我們的產品概念,有的時候消費者會誤解了這項產品的概念,例如我們做了一個很棒的產品,但它因為又大又重而讓消費者不甚滿意,只是因為他們不了解這個產品背後的含義。所以我想要釐清(clarify)這些產品的概念。所以為了要清晰化產品的概念,我把產品線分成分開。但同時,我個人非常喜歡產品的設計,我指的是一切的產品設計,像是相機設計、汽車設計、音響設計,當我在青少年時期,六、七零年代的時候,在我那個時代有非常多很棒的相機、汽車、音響設計。
After I became CEO, I want to reorganize the lineups. Before I took over this company, I’ve worked as a manager of several departments like optics, software, intellectual property, and project manager of several items. I realized that sometimes we failed to convey the product concept properly. For example, If we made a good quality lens, which is heavier and bulkier, customer may not like just because they don’t understand the concept behind it. So we want to clarify the product design concept. In order to convey the concept product design properly to customer, I decide to separate the product lineup. But also, I personally like product design very much, I mean product design in general, like camera, car, audio. When I was a teenager in 70’s 80’s, there were some excellent product design in the market.


Q:你可以給我一些例子嗎?那些你曾經喜愛的產品。
Could you give me some example of those product you like?


A:Sony,80年代的Sony產品設計很棒;90年代的Bang and Olufsen,那個丹麥品牌。還有60年代的德國公司百靈,百靈現在在刮鬍刀非常有名,但在60或70年代他們有非常多產品,像是收音機、音響等等很棒的產品設計,我很喜歡這些產品的設計。所以我想要把這些簡單卻複雜的設計放在我們的產品中。
Sony in 80’s, product design were superb. Bang and Olufsen in 90’s. And Braun in 60’s, of course that’s before I was born, but they’ve made lots of products like radio and audio. I like these kind of stuff. And I wanted to make this simple but sophisticated design into our product.

但我們的概念並不是去「設計」鏡頭,因為鏡頭最重要的東西是它的光學性能,而不是外觀設計,如果我們在上面做了裝飾性的設計的話,它會變得多餘,我們的概念不是「設計」鏡頭,我們只是使用了最簡單的設計,加上高品質的內容、零件、與加工,僅只如此。鏡頭的性能與品質才是最重要的。
But our concept in not to design the lens. Most important thing about the lens is performance, not the external design. If we give some decorative design into it, it may be too much. So our concept is not to design the lens. We just give the simplest design and high quality component, part, finishing, and that’s it. That’s the concept of our design.


舉例來說,這個部分(指鏡頭的尾端髮絲紋部分)需要一種非常精密的削切加工,它稱為陽極處理(Anodising),這必須要有非常整齊的加工機械細節才能達成。所以一個好的鏡頭就連零件都很重要。
For example, this shining metal part requires a very fine machining called Anodizing. We don’t paint on the metal part. In order to have the uniform finishing just by anodizing, the machining is very important. The quality of every part is important to convey the high quality impression. And that’s just one example.


Q:所以是你公司內部的人設計鏡頭的嗎?
Is your employee in charge of the design?


A:不,我們是找獨立的設計師設計的,他的名字是岩崎一朗(Ichiro Iwasaki)。目前是由他來主導產品外觀設計。當然,我們也有自己的產品設計團隊,但核心的設計是由設計師決定。目前的SD系列是內部的設計師打造,而新版的dp系列則是由他操刀。事實上,產品設計是一個非常複雜的過程,即便他已經把設計圖畫好了送過來,我們還要請工程師們去檢視這是否可行,這在工程師、工廠以及獨立設計師之間需要非常多的討論。
No, we asked a independent designer to direct the design. His name is Ichiro Iwasaki. Of course we have our design team but the core concept is provided by him. Current SD camera series was designed by internal design team, but dp Quattro series was design by the designer. Product design is a very complicate process, even the designer has complete the design drawing, it ’s not completed. We have to discuss with factory and engineers that if this design is possible or not, which requires lots of process, that’s why our product team have to work very closely to independent designer office and factory.


Q:所以在請他設計的時候,你告訴了他什麼?
So what did you tell when you ask him to design your products?


A:我沒有說什麼。其實我認識他超過十年了,我過去對他的作品印象很深刻,所以我跟他見面,要他以後一起與我工作。但那之後我們就只是朋友,出去吃吃飯、喝喝酒之類的,在一起工作之前我們就非常熟悉了。我們會一起討論Sigma的方向應該是什麼樣子,而當我們真正開始這個企畫的時候,我沒有告訴他任何的設計細節,我只是跟他說Sigma的方向、目標、遠見等等,然後就把設計的事放心地交給他做。
I didn’t say much. Actually I know him over 10 years. I was impressed by his work in that time, so I met him and ask him to work with me sometime in the future. But since then we just hang out like friends. We know each other very well, we share the direction of Sigma should be. So when we started the project, I told him the directions, goals, visions of Sigma, and just leave the design it to him.

因為我不是設計的專業,我只是公司的CEO、是個商人,所以我不認為公司的總裁把手伸進去產品設計中是一件好事,有的CEO會這麼做,這反而會讓設計團隊感到困惑。所以我把產品的設計就交給他去處理,因為我很相信他,而且他已經對Sigma很瞭解了。
Because I’m just a CEO, a businessman, not professional in design. So i don’t think it’s a good idea that a CEO to put the neck into the detail of design. Some CEO has misunderstand it and says too much about the design, which may confuse the design team. So I tried not to say too much about design. And he knows Sigma very well, so I trust him.


.
公司方面 COMPANY


Q:因為台灣朋友一般來說可能會比較了解Canon或Nikon,比較少人知道Sigma,你可以告訴台灣的民眾關於Simga的願景與目標嗎?
So could you tell us the thing you told the designer like directions, goals, visions of Sigma?


A:要在短時間內說明並不容易,但我們有幾個目標,我們想要成為高品質的產品製造商,我們希望能夠創新、我們想要對消費者誠實,我們想要讓組織保持輕盈,這樣我們才能提供消費者合理的價格。我們的目標並不是成為豪華品牌,我們希望能夠一直保持著非常純粹的科技公司,這是我們的目標。It’s not easy to tell in short time, but we have several goals:
We want to be a high quality product manufacture.
We want to be innovative.
We want to be honest to customers
We want to keep the organization slim.
We want to keep the product with a reasonable price.
We want to stay as a very pure technology company, not a luxurious brand.
We don’t want to be a gigantic company.


Q:這個目標與你父親相同嗎?
Are these goal same as your father?


A:我想是的,方式有點不一樣,但我想基本的想法是相同的。
I think so, The approach is kind of different , but basic ideas are the same.


Q:為什麼想要讓公司保持小型?因為現在的企業有不少會想要收購其他公司來讓自己更壯大,為什麼你不會想要變得更大?為什麼你要堅持?
Lots of company eager to make stronger and bigger, even to acquire other company. But why don’t you want to be big?


A:我們目前依然是一間私人企業,不是公開上市企業,而且依然是一間家族企業。我們不需要最大化銷售交易量、銷售額以及利潤,上市公司需要做這些事才能維持它的股價,我們的狀況是私人企業,所以我們的目標是讓企業持續運轉,且保護員工,這是非常重要的,讓企業持續運作、讓消費者開心、並且讓員工有工作。所以我們希望在產品、企業、員工、顧客以及一切有關事務之間保持平衡,為了達到這個目標,我們不需要成為最大的公司。如果我們這麼做,或許我們把工廠設到例如中國,或者是其他低勞動成本的國家,但我們依然把工廠設在日本,原因之一是我們想要維持我們產品的高品質,同時我們也想保護自己的員工。如果我們把工廠設在日本以外的地方,雖然也可以兩個地方同時運作,但這種狀況不每一間公司都能發生的,基本上,如果你這樣做的話,日本的工廠會逐漸地變小,最後關閉,這不是我們想要的。我們的工廠在日本北方福島縣的一個很小的城鎮,它雖然不是最大的,但如果我們關閉了這間工廠,這對於當地來說會是很大的衝擊,我們想要保護員工,這只是一個例子而已,而我們能做到這樣是因為我們是一間私人企業。所以我們放棄大幅度的成長,並且決定要待在日本,並且在這裡去發想:還有什麼事情是我能在這裡能做的。這是為什麼我們我們把產品的主力從入門產品轉變成中高階產品。
We’re still a private company, not a listed company. Epically we are still family owned. So we don’t need to maximized turnover, sells and profits. Public company have to do that to keep their stock price high. But in our case, our goal is just to continue the business and protect the employees. And that is very important. Continues our business, make customers happy, and keep employment. So we want to take the balance between the product, business, employee and customers and everything. In order to do that, we don’t need to be the biggest company. If maximize the business is our goal, probably we would move out manufacturing site to other countries where has a lower labour cost. But we still decided to stay in Japan. First reason, we want to make the product to highest quality, but also, we want to protect our employees as well. Generally, If a company set factories in low labour cost country and Japan separately at the same time. And one day the company suddenly make a huge progress, they would gradually downsize the factory in Japan. That’s not what we want to do. Our factory is in the very small town of Fukushima Prefecture of Japan. If we close that, the impact to the local society will be huge. So we want to protect them. And that’s just one example. So we gave up to grow rapidly. We decided to stay in Japan, and to explore what can be done here. And that’s one reason why we change our main business form volume zone to mid-high end product.


Q:你說你不想要大幅度的成長,但如果有一天你是慢慢的成長到很大,那時你必須要提供更多的產品時,那個時候,你會把工廠設到日本以外的地方,或者是堅持不論是一間、兩間或三間以上的工廠都設在日本呢?因為像是Canon, Nikon, Sony,他們在日本依然有自己的工廠,但多數的大型工廠依然是在中國、越南或泰國等等之類的地方,你在那種情況下依然會堅持日本製造嗎?
You said you don’t want to grow rapidly. But what if one day you grow progressively and become big. In that time you may need to produce much more product than ever. Would you put your factory outside Japan or still insist to stay. Because company like Canon, Nikon or Sony have factory inside or outside Japan at the same time. Would you still insist MADE IN JAPAN after Sigma grow?


A:那是個非常好的問題(笑),目前我還沒有計劃把工廠外移,但這並不代表未來我們不會把工廠設在日本以外的地方,我們的哲學是:我們不會只因為低勞工成本這個原因,就將廠房選在日本以外的地方,如果我們這樣做的話,我們會變成要一直往世界各地跑,就只是為了追求更低廉的成本,例如中國的勞力成本已經在逐漸增加了,許多公司也正在把廠房移到其他國家,我們不想要這麼做,我們想要與當地居民是一個共生的關係,並且保護那裡的員工。
That’s a really good question(lol). So far I do not have a plan to have factory out of Japan. But it doesn’t mean we will not. Our philosophy is not offshore the factory just because low labour cost. If we do that, we’ll have to move around the world forever for pursuing the lowest cost. For instance, the labour cost is increasing now, so many company is considering to move to other country. We don’t want to do that, If we set the factory, we want to live with the local people and protect them.

我們現在依然與當地供應商緊密的合作,我們稱之為就地採購(Local Procurement)與就地生產(Local Manufacture)系統,這是很特別而且是很傳統的方式,但今天,其他公司在世界各地有非常大的採購網路,他們找到世界上最便宜的零件,並且選擇最便宜的人工來組裝,他們做的是全球化生產,而我們做的是在地化生產。而這就是我們的生產系統與現代生產系統的差異。而我們知道如何在這個系統下生產高品質的產品,但如果是用現代化但不熟悉的系統去採購與生產,我們不確定是否能維持一樣的品質。所以總結答案是:我不知道。
Right now, we still do business with local supplier closely. We called that Local Procurement System and Local Manufacture System. which are traditional approaching for manufactures. But today. other companies have a very big procure network over the world. They purchased the lowest price part and assemble the products at the country with lowest labour cost available. The do it globally, but we make it locally. It has a big difference between us and other modern company system. We know how to make high quality products with the system we know. But if we take the globalized system which we don’t familiar with, we’re not sure the we can maintain this quality. So the answer is: I don’t know.


Q:所以你有指示你的員工要做出什麼規格的鏡頭嗎?
Did you direct your employee to make specific specification lens?


A:是的,有時候。事實上,很常。因為我沒有自己的辦公室,我只有一張簡單的桌子,位在總部機械部門樓層的中間,大約有170人在此工作,在這個樓層中沒有柱子,只有一間大房間,在這間房間的正中央就是我的一張簡單的小桌。在我的右手邊是相機開發團隊、左手則是鏡頭開發團隊、就在我桌子旁邊的一排則是光學設計團隊。我就常常跟他們聊天:「嘿!你們可以做出這樣的鏡頭嗎?」他們會回:『噢那是個愚蠢的想法,因為...』。我與工程師們常常有這樣的日常對話,我從之中學到很多。有的時候他們會走過來向我提案:「我有這樣的想法,我想要讓它商品化。」如果想法不錯,就直接開始這個企劃。
Yes sometimes, actually quite often. I do not have my own office. I just have a simple desk in the centre of the engineering floor of our headquarter. There are about 150 to 160 people work there. In my right hand side is camera development team, left hand side is lens development team/And just next to my desk on the left is the optical design team. I often chat with them like: “Hey can you make this kind of lens?”. They might reply:”No it’s a stupid idea”. We always have this kind casual chat with engineer, ann I learned a lot. Of course engineer would make the proposal to me sometimes like:”I would like to productize this one.” If it sounds good, We’ll start the project.


Q:所以這是傳統日式的辦公式文化嗎?
So is it a traditional Japanese company style?


A:或許不是。傳統日式辦公室會會更正式。或許行銷與產品企劃團隊會先做市場調查,然後做出一個產品規劃,接著把這個企劃交給工程團隊,並且是檢視這是否可行。我不確定這會花多少時間,但這種方式是從行銷與產品企劃團隊開始。但我們的狀況是,我們的想法是從日常生活的談話中得來,或者是工程部門的工程師直接向我或管理階層提議,我想這很重要,因為只有工程師才知道什麼是可行的,企劃部門不會了解在工程上什麼可行、什麼不可行,他們只能創造出一個概念。所以工程部門保持獨立與創意非常重要。
Maybe not. In the case of traditional Japanese company, I think the procedure would be more formal. Marketing and product team would make some kind of market research at first. Then there’s a product plan would give to engineering division to discuss the possibility. The idea would start with market and product team. But in our case, we start an idea form casual chat or engineer proposals to management team. Only engineer knows what’s possible, and planning team would not know, they can only create a concept. So It’s very important to make engineers stay independent and creative.

在日本,我們稱在公司工作的人叫做「上班族(サラリーマン, Salaryman)」,字面上的意思是每個月獲得薪水的人,但其背後的意義代表是一個只會執行上意的人,他們一點也不獨立、一點也不有創意,他們只是遵照指示辦事。我一直鼓勵他們不要只是當一個上班族,要當一個有創意、創新的工程師
In Japan, we called company employee “salary man”. It literally means those who received salary every months. But it contains some negative meaning that is a employee who just followed what is instructed by upper management level. They’re not independent nor creative. I want them to be passionate about their job.


Q:那目前辦公室的氣氛如何?大家就像是朋友般的溝通嗎?
How’s the atmosphere in the office? Do people talk like friends?


A:我不知道,這個你要自己去問他們,我希望公司的氣氛就像是家庭,而不是官僚的公司。但我不太確定他們對公司的感覺如何,但我真心的希望是有一種家庭的氛圍在。
I hope so, but I not sure. You need to ask them by yourself(lol). I hope the atmosphere in my company is more like a family than a bureaucratic company. I’m not very sure how they feel, but I really hope there’s a family like atmosphere in the office.


Q:你們是怎麼招募到心目中最想要的人才?
How do you recruit the best people you need?


A:方法其實很普通,徵才訊息發布的地方主要是網站。但很多時候我們會從大學或學院裡去找人,而且很幸運的,我們從頂尖的大學中找到了很好的學生,因為那些真的想要做一台屬於自己相機或鏡頭的人,他們都來找我們。如果他們去其他的公司,他們可能會被分派到其他的產品,像是事務機器、或者是其他的家電產品等等,但他們如果是到了Sigma,他們會很清楚地知道他們是為了相機與鏡頭付出心力,我們極其有幸能夠找到這群非常有熱情的學生。
The approach is quite normal, we mainly put the advertisement on recruitment website. Normally we recruit people form university and college. We’re very fortunate that we have recruit very student form this top university in Japan. Because those who wants to make the cameras or lenses of their own, they’ll come to us. If they go to other big company, they might be distributed to something like office machine or home electronics. But if they work for Sigma, they will work on cameras and lenses. We’re very lucky to have such passionate student.


Q:你是指實習生嗎?
Student? You mean internship?


A:實習生制度在日本並不流行。我是指他們從大學畢業後,就直接進入公司。所以在大四的時候他們就進入公司面試,然後我們承諾他們會在畢業後錄取。這在日本是很常見的一個程序。
Internship is not popular in Japan. I mean we interview them while they’re still seniors, and we promised them they’ll be hired right after they graduate. That’s a quite normal procedure in Japan.


Q:Sigma會最需要什麼樣特質的人才呢?
What kind of characteristic of employee you need most?

A:我對工程師並沒有特別的人格偏好,因為我們需要很多種不同的人。當然我們需要非常聰明、非常具有創新能力的工程師,這對於產生創新產品來說至關重要,但如果所有的工程師都這麼聰明的話,這對公司一點也不好,因為在將想法產品化的過程中,我們會需要能力普通的工程師來確認所有的設計細節,例如確認訊號的傳送,這動作非常花時間,這種事情就不能交給那種很聰明的工程師來做,那些人總是在創造東西;但這些擔任輔助角色、負責確認設計細節、確認圖表、確認電路圖、確認產品性能或做出原型機的普通工程師,他們輔助的工作對於產品的完成是非常重要的。所以如果讓很聰明的人來做這些事情的話,我們是成就不了好產品的,所以我們需要很多種的工程師,包含了任何人格特質的人,所以我不會特別去想:「哪種是最好的工程師。」所以團隊很重要
I don’t have a specific preference of the engineers for we need many kinds of people. For example, we need very smart, very innovative engineers to make an innovative and great products. But if all the engineers are smart guy, it’s not good for the company. Because on the way to productization, we need normal engineers to check all the detail of the design, like checking the signals, checking the drawing, checking the optics, make a prototype, check the performance, which takes a really long time. This is not what a super engineers should do, they always create something. Normal engineers is to support to make the final products. If our company has only smart guys, we can’t make products. So we need every characteristic engineers. that’s why we don’t define what’s the best employee. The teamwork is very important.


Q:所以有多少人在工程部門呢?
How much people are in engineering team?


A:這牽涉到你對工程師的定義。但如果是總部(編按:非工廠區)的話,大約有170到180人。而整個總部大約有將近80%的人是工程師。
It depends on the definition of an engineer. If its headquarter (not factory), there’s about 170 to 180 people. And it covers nearly about 80% of total people in headquarters.


Q:我曾經問過Canon培養一個製鏡的工匠(Master)需要花多長的時間,他們告訴我大約要30年,你們也是這樣嗎?對於這樣的人有一個職稱嗎?
I’ve asked Canon how long did they spend to cultivate a lens making master form rookie. They replied me: about 30 years. Does it the same to Sigma?



A:我們對於這樣的人沒有正式的頭銜,但我們有那樣的人。一般來說那些人的確有三十年以上的經驗,但這其實要根據你對於工匠(Master)的定義,這些人是非常重要的,但我們不需要這些人來做大量生產的工作。他們的重要性在於創造「大量生產的方法」,所以當我們在做鏡頭的原型時,他們會檢視設計圖、看看鏡片的材質,然後他運用各種技術來創造「如何將鏡片拋光」的方式,然後他會告訴生產線要如何拋光,而在生產線上我們會用量化的機器來製造,所以這個過程會更具系統化、自動化,讓普通經驗的技師也能夠拋光。一個技師能夠在五年之內通熟所有「量產的」拋光技巧,我是說「量產的」,他可以知道所有量產拋光需要的方法,以及操作拋光機器的方式,而且可以依照狀況來更改那些方法。
We do not have an official title for these people. But we have such kind of people who have over 30 years of lens making experience. But it depends on the definition of “master”. These people are very important, but we don’t need them to do the mass production. The importance of these people are to create the methodology of production. So when we make a prototype, they look the drawing, look the material of the glass, then they would try some technics to polish. After that, they create the method how to polish the lens for the production line. At the production line, we use numerical control machine which is more systematic and automatic, that makes normal people can polish the lens with program of the machine. In the case of mass-production, it takes probably 5 years to master of all polishing technics. They’re not a real master, but they would know the recipe of polishing and they can tweak a little bit according to the status.


Q:請問這些製鏡工匠大約有多少人呢?
How many people are the real master in your company?


A:很少,如果你是說真的工匠大師的話不到十個。但依然是要看你對於工匠的定義,有很多人是有長期經驗,他們多半有超過五年經驗,基本上來說,十年到二十年是最適合的,是這些人在掌控鏡頭品質,我們有非常多這樣的人才。
Not so many, very few people. If you’re talking about real master with lots experience, less than 10. But we have many experienced worker in mass production line, they could manage the mass production line, but they also have long term experience, minimum 5 years, ideally 10 to 20 years. These people are there one who controls the quality. We have many those kind of staffs.


Q:所以他們有一個考試升遷制度嗎?像是每年的考試升等制度之類的。
So do you have a promotion system for these people? Like they need to be tested every year.


A:是的,我們有相同的系統。但這會因人而異。
Yes we have similar system. But it depends on what they do.


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鏡頭方面 LENS


Q:我今天才剛發表了一篇20mm f/1.4,我想知道為什麼你們想要在20mm這個焦段放入f/1.4的光圈,因為你們已經做了品質非常好的24mm f/1.4,然後大家都覺得接下來你們會開始著手進行85mm、135mm或者是24-70mm的鏡頭,但為什麼是20mm突然出現?
I’ve just issued the test article of your 20mm f/1.4, I want to know why you want to put a f/1.4 aperture inside a 20mm lens. Because you’ve made a great quality wide angle lens like of 24mm f/1.4. After that, everybody think that you would start with lens like 85mm f/1.4 or 24-70mm f/2.8. But this lens just pop up. Why 20mm f/1.4?



A:這只是優先順序的問題,我不能告訴你下一步會是什麼,但我們目前的計畫只是在替換,把舊有的產品換成新的系列,我們在舊的系列已經有20mm f/1.8,現在我們只是更新到新的系列。我們認為如果只是外觀更新,但規格完全相同的鏡頭,這樣就不會有令人興奮的感覺了。而且這個市場上沒有20mm f/1.4這個規格。我們喜歡做「世界第一個(World First)」的產品。
It just about the priority, i couldn’t tell what’s the next one. But the plan right now is to replace all the existing products to the new series. We had a 20mm f/1.8 in the previous series, and we want to update it. Moreover, we thought it’s not exciting to renew the new lens with the same spec lens as the old one, and there’s no 20mm f/1.4 lens in this industry. We like to make something like “world first” product.


我在文章裡面總是說Sigma這間公司很瘋狂,你們總是生產沒有人見過的鏡頭,像是ART 18-35mm f/1.8,為什麼你們會想要做這樣的鏡頭?
I always said Sigma is a crazy company in my article. You always made lens that we never seen, like 18-35mm f/1.8. Why do you want to make lens like this? What’s the idea when you’re develop these unique lenses?


A:首先,就像我說的,我們想要做「世界第一個」,我們想要做市場上沒有的東西,這是原因之一;而事實上,我們相信我們可以藉由開發這類新的產品,來拓展相機與鏡頭市場,如果我們只是依照既有市場的規格,人們有可能會覺得無聊,我們覺得或許可以開創鏡頭市場或鏡頭工業的潛力,所以我們一直在摸索、一直在嘗試新的東西,這是我們的動力。我想Sigma因此也能夠對攝影工業與攝影文化做出貢獻。
First of all, like I said, we like something “world first”, we want to develop something that does not exist, that’s the first reason. Actually, we believed that we can develop lens and camera market by providing this kind of products. If we stick to traditional lens, people may get bored. I think we could develop the potential of the lens industry. We’re always exploring something new, something innovative. That’s our motivation. And I think by that way, Sigma could contribute something to this photo industry or photo culture.


Q:哪些鏡頭到目前是最佳銷售鏡頭嗎?
Which lens are the bestselling lens? Best 3.


A:如果是說數量的話,前三名或許是:
When it comes to the volume, best 3 should be:

1. 18-250mm f/3.5-6.3 DC MARCO OS
2. 17-50mm f/2.8 EX DC OS HSM
3. 70-300mm f/4-5.6 DG MARCO

但如果說是銷售額的話,則完全不同:
But if it based on the value, it’s totally different:

1. Contemporary/Sports 150-600mm f/5-6.3 DG OS HSM
2. ART 35mm f/1.4 DG HSM
3. 或許是 ART 50mm f/1.4 DG HSM

而18-250mm這顆鏡頭銷量最大的原因是因為,這塊的潛在市場很大,而定焦的市場很有限。
The reason why 18-250mm f/3.5-6.3 has the largest volume is that this potential market is much bigger for those segment. Prime lens market is limited.


Q:既然你已經看到市場的需求,為什麼卻依然要把ART系列當作是Sigma的主力呢?
But since you have seen the need of the market, why still set ART as the main series in your product line?


首先,製造高品質鏡頭並且讓消費者感到愉悅,這對我們來說是非常大的動機,也是我們工作的熱情所在,這是為什麼我們要做ART系列的原因。而同時,因為某些實際的因素,我們依然待在日本,而且堅持日本製造,生產成本相對來說比較高,所以這類的低價格帶商品( Volume Zone Products )對我們獲利來說非常艱辛,所以我們需要像是定焦鏡或150-600mm這種利基產品。
First of all, it’s our passion to make a good quality product and make customer happy. These are big motivations for us. That’s why we want to make the ART series. Also, for some practical reasons, we still insist products made in japan, production cost is relatively high. So this kind of volume zone products is very tough for us in profits. We need to make niche product like prime lens or lens like 150-600mm.


Q:為什麼在旅遊鏡的設定上總是f/3.5 - 6.3,望遠端的最大光圈總不是f/5.6或f/4呢?
Why the aperture of travel lens are mostly set in f/2.5 to 6.3 but not f/5.6 or f/4?


A:因為產品的核心概念是讓它更小,如果我們做更大的光圈的話,鏡頭的體積也會隨之增大,你不會想要在旅行的時候帶個大傢伙出門對吧?
Because concept of the product is to make it compact, if we make it a bigger aperture, the lens would become bulkier. You don’t want to bring a big bulky lens while you’re travel right?


Q:所以如果你們的技術上允許,你們會選用體積小同時有大光圈的鏡頭嗎?
So if its possible to simultaneously make it compact and big aperture, you would choose to manufacture lens like this?


A:基本上,鏡頭依然必須遵照非常古老的光學理論,如果你要大光圈,鏡頭的體積就一定會變大,這是一定會發生的事。但我們一直致力於把鏡頭變得越來越小,我舉個例,20mm f/1.4並不是輕便型的鏡頭,這顆鏡頭裡面有一片非常大的非球面鏡片,如果我們不用它的話,鏡頭體積會變得超級巨大,但我們一直在想辦法研發新的技術讓鏡頭的體積變小。
Basically the lens still live in the very old physics. If you’re going to make a bigger aperture lens, it will become bulkier. If you make a high quality lens, it’ll bulkier too. Still we make our lens as compact as possible. For instance, ART 20mm f/1.4, which is not very compact. This lens use a very big diameter aspherical lens, if we don’t use this glass, it will even bigger. So we’re keep developing new technology to make our lens compact.

Q:Nikon在今年初推出了一款300mm f/4 E PF VR,裡面用了能夠將鏡頭大幅縮小體積的非涅爾鏡片(Fresnel Lens),你怎麼看呢?
Nikon has release a 300mm f/4 E PF with a Fresnel lens inside to greatly reduce the volume of the lens. What do you think about this?


A:我覺得這是非常厲害的科技,非常敬佩他們的成就,我們也希望未來也能夠做出那樣的技術。
I think its a great technology. I admire their achievement. We want to develop that kind of technology in the future.


Q:Nikon與Zeiss除了做鏡頭之外也有做眼鏡,你們有類似的打算嗎?
Other than making the lens and camera, Nikon and Zeiss has manufactured eye glasses, have you planned to do that?


A:沒有,因為我們的熱情是在於相機與鏡頭,而且這兩者之前使用的科技是有差異的,我不覺得我們目前現有的技術可以用來做鏡片。
No, our passion is to make camera and lens. And the technology is a bit different, I don’t think our existing technology could let us make eye glass.


Q:你們在昨天發表了Sigma WR保護鏡,可不可以向我們介紹這些產品呢?
You have just issued the product call Sigma WR yesterday. Could you tell us more about this product?


A:WR保護鏡是陶瓷做的,它並不是傳統的光學玻璃製品,用來製造的方式也跟目前市面上現有的濾鏡或保護鏡完全不同,而且強度是10倍,而且這種陶瓷鏡片的強度也比化學強化玻璃更大。這種鏡片並不便宜,有的時候消費者會使用到非常貴的鏡頭,例如高達4000元美金以上的產品,所以他們或許會想要一款非常強大的保護鏡,能夠讓鏡片在艱困的環境下使用。
Basically WR filter protector is made if ceramic, it’s not a traditional optical glass. The recipe to make the filter is completely different from any existing filter. When compare to the general filter, it’s 10 times stronger, even stronger than chemically strengthened glass filter. Its not a cheap protecter. But sometimes people who would buy lens over 2000, 3000 US dollar or higher, needs a reliable protector to make their lens to sustain in really really tough condition.


Q:所以這款保護鏡花了你們多少時間開發?是你指示工程師們做的嗎?
How long did you develop this protector? Didi you direct your engineer to do that?


A:我想大約花了1年。事實上這種材料並不是我們做的,我們只是在鏡片工業中發現這種陶瓷鏡片,但它的透光度並不好,所以在剛開始並不能拿來作為保護鏡或濾鏡。我們持續地與鏡片供應商合作,花了數個月來強化陶瓷玻璃的透光度,最後終於讓透光度達到標準,最後才決定要讓這個想法商品化。
I think about one year. Actually the glass material was not develop by ourselves. We found there’s a clear ceramic in the industry, but transmittance is not great, so we couldn’t use it for the lens. We work together with glass supplier to improve the transmittance, which takes several months. Then we achieved to make it as a clear ceramic usable for filter protector. So we decide to productised it.


Q:所以你們的鏡片都不是自己製造的?
So you don’t make your own glass material?


A:不,我們沒有製造,我們都是從鏡片供應商購買的,例如豪雅(Hoya)或者オハラ(Ohara)兩間公司。
No we don’t. We purchase from glass supplier like Hoya or Ohara.


Q:ART 20mm f/1.4裡面有用到非常高級的鏡片,它的光學性能非常接近於螢石鏡片,但為什麼不使用螢石呢?
I the ART 20mm f/1.4, there’s two FLD elements which has a super low dispersion optic performance very close to fluorite. But why not use fluorite to get the very best image quality?


A:因為螢石很貴,成本非常的高,但我們用的玻璃性質非常非常的接近螢石,而且成本相對的也低很多,如果我們使用天然螢石,鏡頭的價格會遠遠超過現在的售價。如果價格訂在這麼高的話也會與我們「製造價格合理產品」、「讓消費者開心」等目標相違背,所以我們使用性質非常接近螢石的鏡片。
Because it’s very expensive. The glass we use is just work like a fluorite, but the cost is much lower. If we use a natural fluorite, the price of the lens would be much higher. And if we made the price so high like that, it would violate our goal of making product with reasonable price and make consumer happy.



Q:你們的產品有內部的名稱嗎?
Is your product have an internal name?


A:有的,在我幾年前當上CEO前曾經試著這麼做。我很喜歡音樂,所以我給每一個企劃取了音樂家的名字,一開始很ok,但隨著時間越長,會有好多的企劃名稱,到最後工程師根本搞不清楚哪些企劃名稱要對應到哪個產品。他們不會歡這個點子,也因此,之後就改用代碼來稱呼。
Yes, I tired several years ago before I became CEO. I gave the name for each project. Because I really like music, so I gave musician’s name for each project. In the beginning it was oaky, but as time goes by, there’s too many project names. So engineers get confused that which name are corresponded to the project. They did not like the idea. So we back to use the code number for each project.


Q:你可以給我一些例子嗎?
Could you give me some example?


A:例如古典音樂的編曲家巴哈。綠洲合唱團是SD9的企劃名稱,還有SD10的企劃名稱是Aztec,他們並不是有名的樂團,但卻是我最愛的樂團之一,全名叫做Aztec Camera,是從蘇格蘭來的合唱團,他們在80年代非常流行,是個老樂團。不只是相機與鏡頭。還有一個是安東尼奧,全名是安東尼奧.卡洛斯.裘賓,他是一位來自巴西的波沙諾瓦風作曲家、音樂家。我非常喜歡聽音樂。
Bach the classic music composer, Oasis the rock band…And the name of SD10 was Aztec, they’re not a famous band, but they’re one of my favourite band, called Aztec Camera from Scotland, which is very famous in 80’s. And there’s an Antônio, Full name is Antônio Carlos Jobin, a bazilian bossanova composer and musician. I really like their music.


.
相機方面 CAMERA


Q:為什麼沒有DP0M卻有dp0Q?
Why there’s no DP0M but has dp0Q?


A:因為顧客要我們做的。即便是在我們發表DP1M的時候,也有顧客叫我們開發DP0Mirrell,更廣角版本的DP1M。那個時候我覺得這個想法實在是太瘋狂,因為我們非常清楚這根本不可能大賣,這是超小眾的產品,所以老實說,我當時Merrill系列推出時拒絕了這個點子。事實上我們有對這個想法進行內部討論,但依然覺得這個市場實在是太小了。但當我們推出Quattro系列的時候,我們在各國進行了焦點顧客訪談,包含日本、中國、美國,兩個月前我們還去了馬來西亞,每一次他們見到我都要求我一定要做dp0系列,所以我最後終於投降,決定為他們做dp0。但這也是我的熱情之一,我也會用我們家的產品,但有時候你用DP1M或dp1Q會覺還需要更廣的鏡頭,雖然它們能提供非常銳利的畫質,對於廣角的攝影來說非常適合,所以我個人其實也滿想要dp0的。
Because customer ask us to make it. Even in the time we release Merrill series, some customer ask us to make DP1M with wider angle lens. At that time I though it was crazy for it is very clear that we could sell a lot. Its a super niche product. To be honest, I reject the idea at the time. Actually we have discussed the possibility, but we thought the market is super small, so we gave up. After we released Quattro series, customers ask us to make. I often join the customer gathering in Japan, China, USA, 2 months ago we join Malaysia. Every time I see these people,they always ask me to make dp0. So I finally surrendered and make dp0Q for the customer. But this is my passion too. I have a dp series camera. Sometimes I feel I need a wider angle when I use dp1 Quattro/Merrill. dp series provide a very sharp image, which is very good for wide angle picture. So I am part of the one who wants to make a dp0Q too!


Q:所以dp0Q銷售狀況如何?
So how’s the selling result of dp0Q?


A:很小,dp1, dp2, dp3系列是本來就很小,但dp0賣的比我們預期還要來得多,所以我們已經很開心了。
It’s small(lol). actually dp series are already small. But dp0 sells more than our expectation. So I’m happy!


Q:所以dp系列那個產品賣得最好?
So which one is the bestselling model?


A:dp2目前來說最高,比其他產品還要來得高出50%以上。
dp2 is the highest by far. Over 50% than other three models.


Q:所以DP1M還是dpQ系列賣得比較好呢?
So which series sell better? DPM or dpi series?


A:如果是以數量來說DPM還是最好,因為在產品生命週期結束的時候,我們將M系列產品降價,銷售數字呈現得很不錯。
In terms of the volume are M series, because we reduce the price in the end of product life, which makes selling number very good.


Q:所以你覺得你的顧客們有被dpQ系列的外觀設計嚇到嗎?他們在這部分有什麼反應呢?
So did your customer shocked by the external design of dpi series? what’s their reaction about this design?


A:有些是被嚇到沒錯。有些人甚至討厭這個外型,但有些人非常喜歡。
Yeah… Some hate it, but some really like it.


Q:所以下次在設計dp系列的產品時你們會換設計嗎?
So would you change the design of the next generation dp series?

A:這我不太確定,目前還沒有實際的討論。
I’m not sure, we haven’t discussed yet.


.
市場方面 MARKET


Q:你們是從哪裡調查得知消費者的需求呢?
How did you investigate the customer’s need?


A:主要是從網站的討論區,我沒有參加討論,我只是看而已,然後從中去猜測消費這可能會需要的產品。
I usually check the forum. I didn’t join them. I just watch, and to guess what’s the customer’s need.



Q:在你來之前兩星期,我在網路社群上徵求一些問題,內容是網友們想向你提出的建議,分別是這六項:
2 weeks before you came here, I gathered some questions and advices that people on the Taiwan internet want to ask you. Here’s what they need:

◎開發給Sony FE接環的ART鏡頭 Develop ART lens for Sony FE mount.
◎ART 24-70mm f/2.8
◎ART 85mm
◎ART 135mm
◎開發Foveon感光元件的Mirrorless相機 Develop Mirrorless camera with Foveon Sensor
◎開發M4/3系統的鏡頭 Develop more lens for M4/3 system


A:除了135mm比較特別以外,這些需求幾乎都跟其他國家的需求一模一樣。
Except 135mm is relatively unique, others are mostly the same to the wish list of other country.


Q:兩個月前我曾經寫過一篇Canon, Nikon與Sony三家各個超高畫素產品的比較,結果是Sony的在各個表現都非常好,請問你怎麼看Sony在數位相機的崛起呢?
A month ago I have made a comparison between Canon, Nikon and Sony’s high resolution camera. And Sony have a outstanding performance in most aspect. What do you think about the rise of Sony?


A:Sony有感光元件的製造技術,所以就我們來看,毫無疑問的,Sony在未來將會是相機產業的最大玩家。感應器與鏡頭是最重要的,其他的東西都可以被供應商分食。我想在攝影的產業中,誰擁有了好的感光元件或鏡頭技術,誰就能夠存活下來。這也是為什麼我們要買下Foveon公司,並且替我們自己保留感光元件的技術。
Sony has a sensor technology. To us, it is very clear that Sony will be the major player in the photo industry. Because they have sensor technology. In order to differentiate the products. the sensor and lens are the most important. Other things can be shared by other companies. I think in the photo industry who has a good technology of making good sensor and lens could survive. That is why we acquired the Foveon company and try to retain the technology to us.


Q:但Canon也有感光元件的開發技術。我個人認為Sony比較勇敢去做新的嘗試,Canon與Nikon相對來說則稍微保守一些。你是又怎麼看的呢?
I think Sony are much daring to try something new, but Canon and Nikon are relatively conservative.


A:我對於這些公司不是非常的熟悉,但我個人的猜測是:Canon與Nikon在職業級的攝影師市場已經有非常廣大的使用者,這些人就靠攝影吃飯,而對他們來說,他們需要的是一台強大、可靠的器材,這些人無法輕易的拋開飯碗,直接跳去擁抱新的科技。所以Canon與Nikon必須要對這些職業用戶負責,並且保護他們。特別是那些拍攝奧運會、戰爭題材等,對於器材有精準、可靠、強大要求的記者們更是如此。
I ‘m not very familiar with these company. But my guess is that Canon and Nikon have many customers, including professional photographers. Those professionals live on photography, and they really need a reliable, stable equipment. Canon and Nikon couldn’t ignore them to jump into new technology. So I think the two company have a big responsibility for these people on their shoulders. Especially those photographers who shoot Olympic Games, they cannot miss a single frame. And the journalist in the war zone, the equipment they use must be very reliable.


Q:所以目前你的目標是在Canon與Nikon的用戶,但未來是有可能朝向Sony可能性嗎?
So basically your target is on Canon and Nikon photographers, but will it be possible Sigma turns into Sony?


A:任何事情都有可能。我不希望評論任何一間廠商,因為所有人都是非常努力的在為未來打拼。
Everything is possible. I don’t want to comment about other company, all people work very hard for the future. So everything is possible.


Q:那你是怎麼看待智慧型手機拍照崛起呢?這或許代表未來會有更少人使用相機來拍照,你是否會覺得這對你們來說是個壓力?
What do you think about camera on the cell phone? This might means there will fewer people using a camera to take a picture, will the rise of cell phone be a pressure to you?


A:其實我們瞄準的是專業與高階的用戶,這些人需要的是高品質的照片,所以我認為顧客們不會受到手機拍照的影響。事實上,有很多人同時用很多相機,他們同時有智慧型手機、也有DC,同時有Mirrorless,然後也有高階的單眼,但即便如此,他們還是不會拋棄高階的器材。所以只要我們持續的專注在高階的使用者上,我們是不會受手機拍照影響的。
We focusing on the enthusiast and high end customers. They need a high quality gear like DSLR or mirrorless camera. So these customer would not influence by smartphone. Actually they use many cameras, even professional photographers use the smart phone, compact camera, DSLR, Mirrorless at the same time, but these people would not forget high end camera. I don’t think our business will be influenced by the rising of smartphone.

我覺得越來越多人用智慧型手機拍照是件好事。與底片時代相比,人們拍的照片越來越多了。而其中也一定會有人因為使用手機拍照而對攝影有興趣,進而升級進到專業級的相機與鏡頭。所以對我們來說是一件好事。
But its a really good thing that more and more people taking picture with smartphone. Some of them who’s interested in photography may want to upgrade to a high end camera and lens. I think its an opportunity to us.


Q:你可以告訴我就你的觀察,台灣與其他國家在攝影市場的差別嗎?
Could you tell me the difference between the market in Taiwan and other countries?


A:台灣對於新產品的市場反應非常快,速度遠遠超過美國、中國,甚至是日本,可以說是全世界對於新品反應速度最快的國家之一。當我們一發表新品的時候,台灣人馬上就會跳進去,擁抱新科技。而且台灣人非常在乎品質...非常在乎!在乎的程度甚至超越價格,我認為台灣的市場非常複雜。
Taiwan’s market respond to new products very quickly. Way faster than USA, China, even Japan. Taiwan is one have quickest response country in the world. Once we release a new product, Taiwanese will jump into new product or technology. And also they care about the quality very much, even more than price. I think it’s a very sophisticated market.


Q:所以你對於各國的市場有什麼目標嗎?
Do you have goals for every market.


A:我們對於每個國家的市場沒有明確的目標,我們的目標是被攝影師與攝影愛好者「接受」,不只是日本、美國、台灣、中國等等。或許「被接受」這個目標是有點太保守,但我們是真的很在乎產品的品質,並且花了非常多的心思在上頭,所以「被接受」是一件非常重要的事。
I don’t have a specific goal for each market. Our goal is to be accepted by photo enthusiastic and professional photographers, not only Japan, USA, China but also Taiwan and all other country. Maybe “accepted” is a little bit too conservative, but we do care so much about the quality of our products, we work very hard on it. So accepted by them is very important.


Q:你認為那些市場上的新興產品如何?例如光場相機Lytro,或者是Ricoh Theta、Sony前些陣子發表的專利曲面感光元件等等。
Wha do you think about those special cameras with new technology like Lytro, Ricoh Theta and curved COMS sensor invented by Sony?


A:我覺得這些技術非常有趣,新的科技對於這個工業來說也很重要,因為它可以顯示這個市場的可能性,同時我們也要去想想:「這對於消費者有什麼好處?」即便產品是好的,但對於消費這的幫助如果不大,這依然不能被消費這所接受。即使如此,新的科技對於創新依然是非常好的,但同時也需要去顧及我們到底能夠達到消費者什麼樣的需求。
I think they’re very interesting. And its a very good thing to have new technology in this industry. It’s important to show to industry what is possible with photography. But also we have to think about what could benefit to customer? It will not be accepted when the customer benefit is small, even if the technology is good. So we need to think about how we can create the customer benefit with the new technology.


Q:我認為dp系列的畫質真的非常好,但是高ISO問題必須要解決;另外一個問題是Sigma Photo Pro這個軟體的處理速度需要更快才行。你認為dp系列的下一代有哪些地方需要改進?
I think dp series owns a topnotch image quality, but the problem of high ISO should be resolved. Another problem is that the process speed of Sigma Photo Pro software should be faster.


A:我們了解到高ISO是最大的挑戰,還有處理速度,所以我們一直持續的在改進這個部分,但我們最在乎的一直都是如何利用這個技術(Foveon)的超高畫質優勢,超越現有任何產品的相片品質。
We are aware that high ISO is the biggest challenge for our camera. We always works hard to improve the performance, that is a continuous effort. But we always prioritise to take the advantage of Foveon technology.


Q:哈蘇有一個技術叫做Multi Shot,意思是把各種顏色分次感光,組成一個超級精細的照片,但Foveon只要感光一次就可以獲得相同的效果,非常厲害。那你們為什麼不讓SD系列變成中片幅的專業級相機?因為專業級市場就是需要超精細的畫質,而你們也不需要去對付Canon或Nikon等已經殺成一片紅海的市場,況且在中片幅市場高ISO也不是最重要的。你們有想過這個可能性嗎?
Hasselblad has a technology called “Multi Shot”, which means it would release shutter for different colour respectively. I think Foveon sensor had done beyond this because it only needs one shot. So why not make Foveon a medium format? Because Foveon can surely offer the great quality. You don't need to jump into the red ocean which Canon Nikon and Sony has stayed for years. And noise in high ISO is not a crucial issue in professional market. Have you thought about this possibility?


A:當然!當然!我記得當我第一次看到8 x 10”的底片印刷出來的相片時,印象非常深刻。我的夢想之一就是把相機的品質提升到那樣高的境界。中片幅是我的個人興趣,但目前我們並沒有在那個領域邁進,最重要的原因是,如果我們要發展中片幅的話,我們整個系統都要從頭開始,我們要重新設計感光元件、重新設計機身、鏡頭...這將會是無比巨大而且也無比花時間的過程;而且很不幸的,中片幅市場其實滿小的,即便對於Sigma來說都很小,這是為什麼我們沒有進入中片幅市場的原因。
Of course! Of course! When I saw the big print taken by the 8” x 10” film, i was so impressed. One of my dream is to make our camera to produce such high quality image. Medium format is my personal interest. But so far we have not work on it. First of all, In order to make a medium format camera, we need to re-develop a whole series from the beginning. We have to develop the sensor, camera body, lens…etc. It’s a very long procedure. And unfortunately, the market size of the medium format look quite small, even for Sigma. So that’s why we did not enter the market.


Q:比dp系列的市場還小嗎?
Would it smaller that dp series?


A:這是個好問題(大笑),我不知道!這真的是很棒的問題!
That’s a good question(lol)! I don’t know! That’s a really good question!


Q:我是真的很希望未來能看到Foveon感光元件在市場上發光發熱。
I really hope Foveon sensor could make a progress in the future.


A:其實拜耳式(Bayer)感光元件在市場已經存在非常久了,而且很多廠商一直致力於開發它的表現;但如果是Foveon的話,就只有Sigma在努力而已。所以這個前進的程度會比拜耳式感光元件來得慢一些,但到時候,我相信我們一定會有大幅度的進展。
The Bayer sensor has a much longer history than Foveon. And many company contributed to improve it. When it comes to Foveon, only Sigma work on improving it. So the progress might be a bit slower than Bayer sensor. but we believe it would be a lot progress by the time.


Q:所以你們有考慮與其他廠商合作開發Foveon感光元件嗎?
So, have you thought about to cooperate with other companies to develop Foveon sensor?


A:我們一直都敞開大門歡迎合作,對於任何廠商都是,從來沒有拒他人於門外。
We always open the door to anyone. But there’s no much company come to knock it.


Q:有謠傳說Canon想要併購你們,請問這是真的嗎?
There’s a rumour that Canon wants to acquire you, is that true?


A:我不能評論謠傳的問題,特別是這類與商業相關的事物。我們是私人企業沒關係,但他們是上市公司,所以我不想對此事評論,這有可能會影響到他們的股價。
I cannot comment on rumour. Especially such kind business related rumour. We’re private company so its okay, but they’re listed company. So I don’t want to comment which may influence their stock price.


Q:因為其實有不少人希望Sigma與Sony合作一起開發Foveon感光元件的,像是開發Foveon感光元件的Mirrorless相機等等。
Lots of people on the internet wish Sigma could work with Sony to develop the Foveon sensor. Like Mirrorless camera with Foveon sensor.


A:所以訪談結束以後,你可以打通電話給Sony的CEO,向他推薦Foveon嗎?(笑)
So after interview, could you make phone call to Sony’s CEO to recommend Foveon to them? (lol)


.
個人方面 PERSONAL QUESTION


Q:你的管理方式跟你的父親有差異嗎?
So is it different from your father when it comes to your manage style?


A:相似,我的父親也沒有他自己的辦公室,這是我父親的風格。他的辦公桌現在也還在工程師的樓層中央,而在他的桌子旁邊就是我的小桌,我們把他的桌子就留在原本的位置上。我的爸爸常常與工程師們如日常般的對話,我其實就跟他一樣。但我的父親很有遠見、很有自己的想法,所以他可以自己去執行他的想法。他是個比我更強勢的領導者,但我並不是個強勢的領導者,我也不是非常有魅力,我只是個普通人,所以我很需要工程師們的支援。為了獲得他們的支援,我希望他們是有強烈動機的、有創造力、創新的,所以我非常的依賴他們。
Similar. My father has no private office either. This is his style. Actually his desk is still in the center of engineering floor, right next to my simple desk. We keep his desk as it was. My father would talk to engineers too. But he’s more visionary and has more ideas. He’s a much more stronger leader than I am. I’m not a strong leader and I don’t have such charisma. I’m just a normal man. So I need a lots of support from engineers. In order to get the support form them, I need them to be motivative, creative and innovative. I really rely on them.


Q:所以你的父親是學機械出身的?
So your father was major in engineering right?


A:是的,他主修電子,但他在27歲創立公司的時候就什麼都懂了,他在光學與機械上的了解甚至比電子還要多,而他是從工作上學來的。
Yes, he major in electronics. But he knew everything he need when the found this company when he’s 27. His understanding in optic and mechanics are even more than his major, and all of these knowledge were learned form his job.


Q:那你的主修是?
So what’s your major?


A:是商業相關,我的父親在我進入公司之後,他就指定我去做機械部門的主管(笑)
It’s business. My father assigned me to be the manager of mechanical design team.(lol)


Q:但你怎麼可能在完全不懂得那些科技的前提之下去帶領團隊呢?
But how is that possible to assign you even don’t understand the technology to lead the engineering team?


A:對,所以我從其他的工程師身上去學習。事實上,我只有在工程部門那裡工作一年半。或許是因為他們對我很好吧(笑)。一開始我連他們在說什麼都不能明白,但他們會試著用簡單的方式跟我說明,而且他們告訴我很多關於光學的知識,所以我從中學到了很多。
Maybe their kind to me. In the beginning, I don’t even know what they’re talking about. But they kindly to explain in a simple way. I learned a lot form those engineers. Actually I only work there just a year and half.


Q:你覺得當你公司的CEO最困難的地方在哪裡?
What’s the hardest part to be the CEO of your company?


A:我非常幸運,到目前為止,我的員工一直都很幫助我,所以我是很享受我的工作。
Hard? So far our employee support me a lot. It is very lucky that I have such kind support form my staff and business associates. I enjoy this job a lot.


Q:你的員工大多年紀都比你大嗎?
Is your employee are mostly older than you?


A:不不不…我已經夠老了,我的員工們大多都比我年輕。
No no no… I’m old enough. Our employee are mostly younger than me.


Q:所以你的父親有教導過你如何當一位CEO嗎?
Did your father teach you how to be a CEO?


A:有的,即便是在我小的時候他就告訴我:「你一定要接管我的事業」。因為我的房子就在公司大樓的頂樓,所以我每天從學校回來到家的路上都會遇到許許多多的企業員工,也會跟他們聊聊。
Yes, he told me:”You must take over my business” when I was very young. And my home was just at the top floor of our office building. So everyday I left and back home, I always met employees and have some chat with them.


Q:所以從你小時候就知道將會接管公司?
So you know you’ll gonna take over the company while you were very young?


A:沒錯,我知道我爸要我接管,但我那時認為我做不到,因為我不夠聰明,也不像他是個強勢的領導者。
I knew that my father wish me to take over the business. But I thought I couldn't competent of that because I’m not smart enough, nor a strong leader like my father.


Q:所以你有與他爭執過嗎?例如說你不覺得你能勝任這個之類的
Did you fight with him about taking over the business? Like you don’t think you’re competent of that.


A:他很強勢,我不能跟他這麼說。這些不能勝任的想法都是我跟媽說的,而她總是說:「這是你的人生,你可以自己做決定。」
My father has a strong character. So I couldn’t tell him like that. I always told my mother that how I think about taking over the company. And she always said:”This is your own life, you can make the decision on your own.”


Q:所以你是什麼時候進入公司的呢?
When did you enter the company?


A:當我一畢業就進入Sigma工作。
Right after I graduate form school.



Q:是為了未來接管公司做準備嗎?
Just preparing for the future to take over the Sigma?


A:沒錯。一開始其實我是想要進其他的大公司去學習商業經驗,但我的大學教授建議我回家裡的公司工作(這位教授其實在我們家工作了很多年,退休之後去大學當教授)。他很清楚日本的企業文化,如果我在其他企業工作10年後,帶著某個頭銜回到Sigma當空降部隊,公司裡的工程師們或許不會歡迎我,因為我能有這個位置的原因純粹因為我是創辦人的兒子。在日本,組織團隊並與他們一起工作、共同分享工作成果、了解員工的想法、並且一起認識公司,進而接納我、一直到把我當作是一個領導者,這個是身為一個管理者非常重要的事,所以教授建議我從初階的職務開始做。而我認為他的建議是對的。
Yes. At first, I’ve planned to work for bigger company to learn how to do business. But my professor in the university advice me to join the company right after graduate. (The professor has worked in our company for many years. He become a professor after his retirement.) He knew the Japanese company culture. If I come back to my company after 10 years with a title like project manager or something. The staffs may not accept me because I come back just because I am the son of the founder. I Japan, it’s very important to form a team, share the sympathy and work together. In order to get the sympathy and understanding form the staffs, it’s better to join the company when I was junior and work with them together. Then the staffs would accept me and recognise me as a leader. That’s the advice form my professor. And I think he’s right.


Q:所以當你在年輕時剛進入公司的時候,他們就知道你會是未來的公司接班人嗎?
So the employee knew that you’re gonna be the future leader while you entered the company?


A:嗯......是的,或許吧!其實在我進公司工作之前,我就已經認識那些員工很多年了,我想他們就像是我的家人一樣,因為我的家就在公司的頂樓。但與他們熟識,跟當他們的主管,是完全不同的兩件事。即便他們知道創辦人的兒子在未來可能會接管公司,他們也不一定會尊敬我,所以對我來說,能被他們被當作「同事」來接受是很重要的。
uh…yes, probably! Before I join the company, I knew some of the staffs for many years. I think they are just like my family members for the reason that my house is on the top of the building. But being familiar with them is totally different form being accepted as a leader of them. Even if the know the son of the founder may take over the company, they may not respect me. So its important for me to be accepted by them as a co-worker.


Q:所以你的員工們是怎麼形容你的?
So how’s your employee describe you?


A:這我不知道,你應該打個電話問他們(笑),我希望他們是好的,但我不確定。
I don’t know. Maybe you should make a phone call to them. I hope it’s good but i’m not sure.


Q:你的父親對工作是非常嚴肅的嗎?當員工做錯事的時候他會發怒嗎?那你又是如何呢?
Is your father a serious person? I mean will he being angry after his staff do something wrong. What about you?


A:是的,非常嚴肅。他是非常典型的日本工程師與企業家。有的時候如果員工做錯事他會發脾氣。但我個人很隨性。有的時候員工對我覺得很困惑,因為我有時太隨性了,他們希望我表現得像個大老闆一樣,但我完全不是那樣的人。我依然保持我的隨性、與員工開玩笑等等。有些人認為這樣對於公司來說不是好事,這些人會輾轉的暗示我要在個性上做一些改變,但我就是做不到。
Yes very serious. He’s a very typical traditional Japanese engineer and entrepreneur. sometimes angry while the employee make mistake. But I’m very casual. Some of the senior staff were confused about me after i became CEO because I’m too casual. They want me to be more serious
and behave more like a big boss. But I’m not such type of man. So I still be myself and make a joke. Some people say it’s not good for a boss of a company and they indirectly ask me to change my character, but I just couldn’t.


Q:那你有對你的孩子說未來將要接任的事嗎?
So did you tell your son or daughter about the things of taking over?


A:事實上我沒有,因為我的家現在不在辦公室了(笑)。有的親戚會對我的孩子說類似的話,但我並不希望這對孩子造成壓力,他目前才12歲而已。
I personally not. Because I don’t live at the top of office building(lol). But someone may have told my son in relative gathering. But I don’t want this to be a pressure to him, he’s just 12 years old now.


Q:但你的父親在你12歲的時候就告訴你接班的事情對吧?
But when you were 12, your father has already told you the thing about taking over the company right?


A:沒錯,不,甚至更早,大約六、七歲就告訴我了。一開始我根本不把這當一回事。但隨著我長大,我發現這件事的困難性與挑戰性。所以當我十三、四歲的時候,我真的很不喜歡未來要接班這件事
Yes, even earlier. About when I was 6 or 7 years old. I do not take it seriously in the beginning. As time goes by, I realised it’s quite tough and challenging. When I was 13, 14 years old. I really don’t like the idea.


Q:所以在你的孩提時代,你的父親永遠都是在工作嗎?
So your father always working in your childhood?

是的,他從早到晚、從平日到假日,一年365天都在工作。
Yes, from the morning to late evening, from week day to Sunday. Basically he worked 365 days per year.



Q:最後,你有什麼話想對我們的網友說的嗎?
In the end of the interview, is there anything you want to say to Taiwanese people on the internet?





A:首先,我要感謝所有的台灣人,非常謝謝你們在311大地震時所提供的援助。就我所知,台灣民眾在災難發生時捐助了最高的金額,最近一陣子我們才重建了一間受海嘯侵襲的醫院,其中主要的資金就是來自於台灣,所以身為日本人,我要感謝所有的台灣人。
First of all, I would like to thank all the Taiwanese people for their help to Japan when the earthquake hit. As fa as I remember, Taiwanese people donated the most to Japan. Recently we could rebuild one of the hospital damaged by tsunami mainly due to the donation by Taiwanese people. On behalf of Japanese, I would like to thank all Taiwanese people for the support.

第二,我要謝謝台灣民眾對我們產品的支持,有許多人購買我們的產品,而且也相當喜愛。你們的熱情是我們前進的動力,非常的謝謝你們。
Secondly I would like to appreciate Taiwanese people to support our products. I know many Taiwanese people buy our products and enjoy them. That is the base of our business and our motivation. Thank you for all the customers in Taiwan.



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對於網友在Mobile01與ptt的熱情回覆,小編非常感謝各位。在提問時我已經將問題做過整理。在與社長見面之前我已經與張經理討論過,其實有很多問題是根本不能回答的,例如「未來有沒有可能推出85mm f/1.4」這類清晰而明確的問題,所以我將這些「問題」變成「建議」,讓社長參考。而不能一一達成所有網友的提問,小編也深感抱歉,但我相信社長的回答之中即便沒有完全回答到,也應該有沾上邊。

最後,因為山木社長會看這篇文章,所以如果你對社長有任何意見想要提出,而且希望社長立即就能明白,也請你在下面以日文或英文回覆,我想他一定有機會看到。


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特別感謝與我一同專訪的同事:
Cody, Yves, Steven


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