LEXUS IS/GS 前輪懸吊獨立雙A臂

BMW當然不是操控神主牌,但他們的確是花很多成本在懸吊幾何的細節設計上,我這樣說一定有很多T牌/L牌粉會黑我,但以同樣的懸吊結構、或看似操控會好的結構上來講,Toyota真的沒有花太多成本在懸吊幾何的細節上,沒辦法,公司文化就是要精準控制成本,集團利潤最大化

舉例來說,我買過很多台BMW,撇開M Car不說,一般車型就算是M Sport套件,避震器其實還是偏軟的,但為什麼那麼多人講到BMW的操控都很肯定?因為懸吊幾何設計得好,BMW的車子在過彎時不管是車輪接地面或是側傾的問題已經被懸吊幾何的設計解決了七八成,避震器在不同套件上其實只是擔任一個輔助的角色,所以很多人常常說德係車很Q,操控不錯卻不會死硬,但又講不出個所以然,就一個駕駛回饋的感覺問題

反觀Toyota的車,前幾年朋友搬回台灣,我接手了他的IS-F,出來前不是都在講什麼M3/C63的直接對手,但開過後就知道,真的等級差太多了,不是因為這是Toyota第一台此級距的車 所以沒經驗,也不是因為前面放了顆看似是after thought的八缸引擎,導致重心不是很均衡而影響操控,而是上一代IS的懸吊幾何從一開始的設計就沒有要走運動路線,講白一點就是Toyota一貫的策略~"夠用就好",平時開 直線穩轉彎不翻車就行,運不運動只是取決於之後Lexus要加多硬的避震器上去,設計理念跟德係車是相反的

IS-F我開了半年多,整台車感覺就像是Lexus原廠的改裝車,八缸引擎很有力沒錯,但行路感偏死硬~這也就算了,過彎的時候側傾竟然比我的E90 328i還多,這哪裡是什麼Performance compact sedan,入彎時側傾大到讓人沒信心(因為避震硬還會一路顛顛顛),彎中動態不穩定(還是因為避震硬),出彎時油門也不敢踩太重(怕會失控),也許專業賽車手可以開IS-F在賽道做出不錯的成績,但是這台車給一般駕駛者的回饋感跟M3/C63比差了不只一條街,先天體質差太多

接下來說說GS,開過GS350的F Sport,不得不說這大概是我開過駕駛回饋感、操控最好的豐田房車,比我的F10 535i M Sport感覺還棒,我相信GS-F應該更讓人驚豔~沒開過,只可惜新的IS沒有延續GS的操控特性,離BMW 3系列還是有一段距離,有了GS的經驗,我發現Toyota不是做不出來,只是看他們要如何定位自己的產品跟控制成本而已,希望下一代GS可以更好,不要只是曇花一現
I really don't like to discuss which one is better (especially Japan VS German). Maybe I didn't drive fast enough to tell the difference but I drive faster than most of drivers on the road. There is only one bad thing I found from Japan is Shock(Damper) which is stiffer and unstable at the same time. A good shock can provide comfortable ride, better steering feel and stable on the road. This doesn't mean Europe performance shocks like Koni, Bilstein are very comfortable. No way. (They may be able to turn down to soft if they are adjustable). They may sacrifice some ride comfort but they gain MUCH MUCH more body control during spirited drive. In Japanese performance shocks like Tokico, KYB I found they were stiffer and unstable at the same time. Europe performance shocks are also smarter. I think shock design is more like art than engineering which Japanese are not good at.

I tried to test and purchase M3 last year but it really let me down. Not because it's handling but its quality. I tried 2013 M3 (4.0 V8) with only 24K km from big BMW dealer. When I started the car, the engine sounded like playing rock & roll(I'm shocked). That also reminded my previous coworker's car in Taipei which was 5 year old Passat in 2008 (He also kept complaining his wife destroyed his car's transmission but I really felt bad was the engine sound). In the past I always bought used cars and never had this situation before. I think most cars I tested and drove ware Japanese cars. My 1992 Civic bought from small used car lot in Taipei was better than that when I sold it in 2001.

I think I will not accept any cars from German for the next 15 years. (After 15 years I'm near 70. I think I will not drive cars as fast as now) I think I with BMW is NO 緣. I'm not rich. If I have the money I will buy houses first, retire saving the second, the last is cars (although I like cars very much). I really appreciate Nissan. It gave me car fun without paying big money (of course I modified my Nissans a little bit. So they are not factory cars).



dlin4229 wrote:
I really d...(恕刪)

Save your money and don't think about the house in Taiwan. Especially you are step into elderly.
Why not just rent one? Taiwan's estate market is just collapsing although our government has instituted to salvage.
AndroidHTC wrote:
Save your...(恕刪)

House market is very good in Silicon Valley now. I sold my house in Taipei in 2011 and bought a house there.

Yes. You're right. I will rent a house first when I retire and back to Taiwan....
dc_alwaysblue wrote:
BMW當然不是操控...(恕刪)

感覺您朋友的IS-F要馬是小改款前的,不然就是他改過避震器了
小改後的IS-F修改彈簧設定(前放軟後加硬),
而四代GS350 F-Sport,則是Benchmark 小改後IS-F的行路性、操控性,
企圖以F-Sport等級達到前代F的最終表現(最後在繞錐跟側向G值都有達到差不多的性能)

德系日系在底盤設定上最大的差異,應該是在於前後彈簧的硬度"比例"上(註)
德系車前軟後硬、日系車"傳統上"前後一樣硬、性能車前硬後軟
近年來日系車也改前軟後硬了,畢竟市場口味是這個方向的
至於說"BMW懸吊幾何應付了大多數傾側",
這在IS/GS這種前雙A、後雙A架構延伸的六連桿上能做的比BMW更多
只是日系車一貫搭載更軟的彈簧,
即便是GS350 F-Sport也比5er M-Sport軟20%以上(只跟一般5系差不多硬)


所謂的“硬度”,是用以下影片方式量的

德系車大概前1.3Hz後1.7Hz吧,日系大概前1.2Hz後1.4Hz
其實都是前軟後硬,只是德系後面更硬
小弟只開過W204 C300,W205 C250,只覺得高速彎道不是很感"踩"油門,或許因為只是一般市售車!也許年紀大了,慢慢開就好!個人淺見:車子的"操控"應該不只懸吊吧,整體包含:輪胎,底盤結構,車重,引擎出力的綜合結果,一般較專業的媒體會測試skidpad(彎中加速)的極限g值,個人認為可以做個參考!

C&D:

Toyota Prius : 0.82 g
BMW 330i : 0.83 g
Lexus IS-350:0.84 g
BMW 440i / Acura TLX AWD : 0.86 g
Toyota Camry XSE V-6 : 0.87 g
Infiniti Q50 Red Sport 400 : 0.88 g
Honda Accord 1.5T / Volvo S60 T5 AWD: 0.89g
Toyota 86 / Nissan 370Z : 0.90 g
Mini JCW : 0.92 g
Ford Fiesta ST / Kia Stinger GT / Subaru STi / Lexus LC/GS-F:0.93 g
BMW M550i xDrive / M-BENZ C300 Cabriolet:0.94 g
Lexus RC-F / VW Golf R:0.95 g
BMW 230i:0.96 g
AMG C63: 0.97 g
BMW M3 / Audi RS3 / R8 : 0.98 g
BMW M2 : 0.99 g
Porsche 718 Boxster Manual : 1.01 g
McLaren 570GT / Civic Type-R : 1.02 g
Ford Focus RS with Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 / AMG GT-R : 1.04 g
NSX : 1.06 g
Ford GT : 1.11g
Chevrolet Corvette Z06 : 1.14 g

但這些也是專業試車手在賽道測試得結果!


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