bd_player wrote:
我是完全看不出這一段有什麼陰謀論的成份存在。

我對這段文字的解讀是說對青少年而言感染到COVID-19往往連症狀都沒有,只能透過PCR來看有沒有感染到,不然根本感覺不到有生病。

我回的人不是你
你插進來當然就看不出來

mindcry常轉貼美國極右派言論
認為肺炎和疫苗都是政府的陰謀
用PCR這種無法在家裡驗證的方法
欺騙明明沒有症狀的人打疫苗

mindcry wrote:
這個網站不錯,我剛剛看到紐西蘭跟美國這兩個共產黨控制的國家也要開始實施強迫施打計劃了
全球精英不演了,直接透過政府來管制人口數量

mindcry wrote:
政客跟財團密謀出來的病毒,目的當然就是控制人口跟賺錢
不可能會讓伊維菌素 Ivermectin這種沒版權的藥物,阻止他們賺錢
沒錯,透過PCR
或是之後透過血清做流行病學調查,像是美國染疫的人數就比實際確診數高個5倍
非常多人根本就不知道自己得過



tteffuB 特肥吧 wrote:
你小時候常感冒嗎? 有的話,恭喜!

比抗體更持久的免疫武器!記憶 T 細胞可抗 COVID-19 數十年?
BY KATHY HUANG ON 2021 年 7 月 2 日新冠病毒, 科技新知
為什麼有些新冠確診者只出現輕微症狀,有的人卻重症、甚至死亡?影響症狀發展有許多因素,包括年紀、個人病史。史丹佛大學(Stanford University)研究則指出免疫力差異的影響:輕度感染者大多已感染過流感冠狀病毒。他們體內產生的記憶性 T 細胞免疫力可持續數十年,使感染新冠後不容易惡化至重症。研究結果發佈於《Science Immunology》。

我上次看John Campbell的頻道好像有人問一個WHO的顧問,疫苗的booster要打多久
他回答差不多十年,無法想像更久了,之後就是一般的普通感冒
https://youtu.be/DE_lXnqDylU?t=2502
很久以前(COVID剛爆炸的時候)也聽過病毒學家講過類似的,當時又有鑽石公主號(一大堆無症狀),我就大概知道永遠不可能像天花、麻疹或是SARS(2002-2003)一樣消滅病毒了

TWiV 591: Coronavirus update with Ralph Baric

44:00 - We do not know why children under 9 do not have issues with the virus. They have very high concentrations of virus & there's no obvious reason they should not transmit efficiently to those around them. Not enough work has been done to determine if children can be super-spreaders nor what their burden of spread is. X-rays of children's lungs show that they are clearly diseased & clearly infected, but they don't show any symptoms.

47:08 - Not only is this not likely to be caused by physiological (size, diameter, throughput etc.) differences between children & adult lungs, if it were a physiological difference, there is reason to believe that we should be seeing this disease affecting children more aggressively than adults.

47:36 (back to the point I told you to remember) Children might very well get infected with the common-cold causing coronaviruses in the first 3-4 years of their life & become immune. This immunity to the age-related severe effects of them could be what is preventing these otherwise seemingly benign viruses from presenting disease similar to that of emerging coronaviruses such as COVID-19, if they were able to more frequently infect adults.

48:18 - Humans have only defined these common-cold causing coronaviruses as ones causing mild disease in recent history. In reality they all originated in other animals at some point. Because of that, we do not know how severe the disease caused by them was when they first infected humans.


"We have no idea how severe they were in adult & naive-adult populations. Most likely they weren't. They were probably brutal disease just like SARS, MERS & SARS-2 are to adult individuals as they get older.

If that hypothesis is true, then the prediction would be that as SARS-2 goes around the globe and infects the adult population, we will become immune, & the virus will now preserve itself in the population by infecting young children who don't get serious disease. As they grow up, they are pre-immune so they never get serious disease and SARS-2 will now be relegated to the role of being a benign common contemporary coronavirus who somehow lost its pathogenic potential. When the real reason it lost its pathogenic potential is all of the adults are immune.

如果这个假设是真的,那么预测将是,随着SARS-2在全球范围内的传播并感染成年人口,我们将变得有免疫力,而该病毒现在将通过感染没有得到严重疾病的幼童而在人口中保存自己。当他们长大后,他们有了预先的免疫力,所以他们永远不会得严重的疾病,而SARS-2现在将被降格为一个良性的当代普通冠状病毒,以某种方式失去其致病潜力。当它失去致病潜力的真正原因是所有的成年人都有免疫力。

If that's the case then we have a 1 to 3 year pandemic that we will be facing until sufficient herd immunity occurs to drives the virus into this type of persistence mechanism.
---------
回顧歷史上發生過的大流行,只是當時不知道是什麼引起的
但是因為後來爆發了COVID,專家研判當時病人的症狀跟SARS‑CoV‑2很像,很可能就是冠狀病毒OC43
也是一開始進入naive人口裡面很慘烈,之後就適應了

1889–1890年流感大流行(英語:1889–1890 flu pandemic),又稱「俄國流感(Russian flu)」,是指於1889年爆發的一次流感大流行。 最主要的一波疫情發生於1889年-1890年,此後1890年-1892年又發生了兩波較大規模的疫情。此次大流行共造成了全球約100萬人死亡,是歷史上致死人數最多的流行病之一,也是十九世紀最嚴重的疫情之一。

1889年5月,該病最早在俄羅斯帝國位於中亞地區的布哈拉被發現,與此同時加拿大、格林蘭島等地也有疫情報告。俄國當地的大規模鐵路建設加重了疫情。1889年10月,該流感傳播到了聖彼得堡、莫斯科,並沿著鐵路線傳播到了歐洲大陸。1890年初,流感傳播到了美國,紐約、波士頓等地相繼爆發疫情,共造成約13000名美國人死亡。

該病的致病病原不明確, 有研究認為是H2N2流感病毒,有研究認為是H3N8流感病毒,也有研究人員認為俄國流感可能是OC43冠狀病毒造成的。

COVID-19可能會永遠與我們共存

事實上,其中一種導致感冒的冠狀病毒有可能在19世紀造成一場嚴重疫情,然後才轉變為一系列輕微、普遍的人類病原。根據它的家族譜系分布,研究人員在2005年估計,地方流行性冠狀病毒OC43是在19世紀晚期──可能是1890年代初期──進入人類群體。這個時間點使某些研究人員推測,原始OC43可能導致1890年的「俄國流感」大流行,這場疫情以異常高的神經症狀發生率而聞名,而神經症狀也是COVID-19的顯著症狀之一。

專家也認為,要從大流行轉變到其他階段,取決於免疫力的盛行,尤其是年長或易感族群的免疫力。年輕族群──特別是兒童──會在接觸到SARS-CoV-2的一生中建立免疫力。如今的成人沒有這種優勢,這使他們的免疫系統對SARS-CoV-2沒有經驗,卻又暴露在這種病毒中。
mindcry wrote:
Ninja Nerd也說不會,不可質疑Ninja Nerd

他影片講的大部份都沒什麼問題
但中間停頓並出現一段文字



意思是說第一次遇到新抗原時,MHCI與殺手T細胞結合後,殺手細胞不會殺死帶有抗原的細胞??是這樣嗎?那這些帶有抗原的細胞要如何處理?就放著嗎?

身體如何知道這些細胞膜鑲嵌抗原的細胞只是打疫苗的關係?而不是真正的病毒感染呢?非常困惑
praetorian0828 wrote:
他影片講的大部份都沒(恕刪)


這不是這方面的專業也不知道他說的到底真的還是假的還是還不能確認
一雙玉臂千人枕、半點朱唇萬客嚐,還君明珠雙淚垂、恨不相逢未嫁時
praetorian0828 wrote:
意思是說第一次遇到新抗原時,MHCI與殺手T細胞結合後,殺手細胞不會殺死帶有抗原的細胞??是這樣嗎?那這些帶有抗原的細胞要如何處理?就放著嗎?

細胞不殺的話
抗原蛋白一直留在細胞內
不會釋放進入體液
現在把看李教授的部落格當追劇,
他2016年的文章比對現在,發現他對冠狀病毒還真的一以貫之。

https://wleemc.pixnet.net/blog/post/116371672-%E9%86%AB%E5%AD%B8%E7%B3%BB%E8%A6%81%E6%80%8E%E9%BA%BC%E5%94%B8%EF%BC%9F
台灣最常見且最重要的病毒疾病是B型肝炎與流感,我常問學生、PGY或R:
"B型肝炎病毒" 與 "流感病毒" 在臨床上最大的差異是甚麼?
如果你沒有整合概念,很難切進主題。認真的學生可能會朝B肝病毒是DNA病毒,流感病毒是RNA病毒,兩者核酸複製模式不同,因此可依照聚合酶結構發展出不同的抗病毒藥物。如果你把基礎與臨床整合起來,多接觸病例,你會發現兩者最大的不同是,B肝病毒能與肝細胞和平共處,而流感病毒無法與呼吸道上皮細胞和平共處。因為有此不同,B型肝炎有所謂的帶原者(佔20-30%),即免疫系統對B肝病毒視而不見或與之妥協,但流感病毒一旦進入呼吸道上皮細胞後,如果免疫系統視而不見(沒有CTL辨識流感病毒為外來抗原),病毒會加速在細胞內繁殖,破壞細胞並擴散感染其它細胞,被感染的病人會死亡(此時克流感Tamiflu可救命)。免疫系統也不會與流感病毒妥協達成互不侵犯,如果免疫系統實力太差,無法清除流感病毒,病人可能因流感病毒持續破壞呼吸道上皮細胞而引起細菌感染死亡。另外,如果一個人沒有CTL能辨識流感病毒為外來抗原,這種人很容易被天擇淘汰,流感病毒一直在淘汰這種人。然而,B肝病毒可與人類肝臟和平共處,病毒沒有淘汰人的能力,如果當今醫學沒那麼發達,B肝病毒就能永遠寄生在20-30%的人類肝臟。
很想問一下李教授這是什麼

Guillain-Barré syndrome

Guillain-Barre (gee-YAH-buh-RAY) syndrome is a rare disorder in which your body's immune system attacks your nerves. Weakness and tingling in your extremities are usually the first symptoms. These sensations can quickly spread, eventually paralyzing your whole body.

格林-巴利 (gee-YAH-buh-RAY) 綜合徵是一種罕見的疾病,您的身體的免疫系統會攻擊您的神經。 四肢無力和刺痛通常是最初的症狀。 這些感覺會迅速傳播,最終使您的整個身體癱瘓。




FDA warns of neurological side effect of J&J jab

Nikou Asgari in New York

The US drugs regulator is adding a warning label to Johnson & Johnson’s Covid-19 vaccine after the shot was linked to a rare neurological side effect.

On Monday, the Food and Drug Administration said 100 cases of Guillain-Barré syndrome were reported by individuals who received J&J’s Janssen shot out of 12.5m doses administered, and that 95 of those people required hospital treatment.

Guillain-Barré syndrome is a rare neurological disorder that involves the body’s immune system attacking the nerves, and which can lead to paralysis.

The FDA said there was one death following vaccination because of the syndrome.

The disorder typically affects up to 6,000 people a year in the US and has been linked to other vaccines including the seasonal flu jab, the FDA said.

The warning is likely to shake confidence in J&J’s Covid vaccine and comes after the rollout of the shot was paused in the US earlier this year while authorities investigated the cause of rare blood clots also reported after vaccination.

“The chance of having this occur is very low, and the rate of reported cases exceeds the background rate by a small degree,” the company said, adding: “We strongly support raising awareness of the signs and symptoms of rare events to ensure they can be quickly identified and effectively treated.”

“Although the available evidence suggests an association between the Janssen vaccine and increased risk of GBS, it is insufficient to establish a causal relationship,” the FDA said, adding that no similar signs of the disorder have been reported following the Moderna or BioNTech/Pfizer jabs.
在考慮要不要打AZ

這實在太難決定了

有人知道可以去哪個網站查有哪些人打了哪種疫苗嗎?
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